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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17968
Location: Eugene, OR
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 Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for that David. It wasn't our finest hour!  I felt it was useable or patchable, but if you guys decide to keep looking years for perfect parts that don't need patching it will take longer to build. Did you sandblast them? Weld them up & MasterSeries everything silver & black. They will be plenty strong & never rust again in your lifetime. 
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Thanks for that David. It wasn't our finest hour! I felt it was useable or patchable, but if you guys decide to keep looking years for perfect parts that don't need patching it will take longer to build. Did you sandblast them? Weld them up & MasterSeries everything silver & black. They will be plenty strong & never rust again in your lifetime. |
I did sandblast, and that's where it got ugly 😏. I'm going down to check on the car this week, well unless my girl goes into labor tonight!!
I'll see what we can salvage to keep the fab time and cost in budget as you are right about trying to find better pieces...if only I had a early fasty rather than late...seem to be plenty of full NOS inner sections for early models around. Unfortunately, can't get master series here, so thinking to POR15, but it may not like the clean metal.
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Starting to dismantle the engine for a complete stock rebuild. This appears to be the original PP. I did a very light cleaning (per Clatter's instructions on his Bus engine rebuild page) and it looks to be in good shape. Just wondering if I should re-use it or buy a replacement? The throw out bearing contact area is smooth, but does show some wear. What do you folks think?
Flywheel has some dark areas, but no scoring or other defects that I can see. Clutch disc had plenty of thickness and also appeared in good shape, but I will replace with new.
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Starting the tear down and noticed that the cooling flaps are in the open position...is that the correct position when the engine is cold?
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Picked up this beauty to add to my workshop!
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Dlglobal1 wrote: |
Starting the tear down and noticed that the cooling flaps are in the open position...is that the correct position when the engine is cold?
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IIRC, they should be closed when cold unless the thermostat failed. The thermostat is designed to fail open so that the engine doesn't overheat as a result of a thermostat failure.
Check under the head at the thermostat and you should see that it's trying to blow itself apart if it's failed. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17968
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Dlglobal1 wrote: |
Picked up this beauty to add to my workshop!
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The 172 HD is heavy duty!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:49 am Post subject: |
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At last making some real progress! Body is off the pan!
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Got a an hour or so in the garage today and started disassembly. This is what I found so far (lots of cleaning ahead):
Both chambers have allot of oily residue.
1 and 2
3 and 4
Cylinders 1 and 2
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dlglobal1 wrote: |
Got a an hour or so in the garage today and started disassembly. This is what I found so far (lots of cleaning ahead):
Both chambers have allot of oily residue.
1 and 2
3 and 4
Cylinders 1 and 2
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I recognize that stage of the build right there.
That's what I refer to as the "Stick and Spoon" stage...
FWIW, just get the chambers clean, and crack-check those heads good and early.
It's a waste to spend too much time on them if they have any fatal cracks.
_________________
Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Continuing the teardown, As far as I can tell this motor has never been rebuilt.
I am measuring everything before removal. My crank end play is .115mm (.004"),
Rod clearance measured at
#1 .010"
#2 .010"
#3 .006"
#4 .009"
Main seal area after flywheel removal and before any cleaning
After cleaning
The inner case is dirty as expected and I can see some slight discoloration on one of the cam lobes. Pretty much as expected for a 40+ year old motor. No loose studs. Can't really see the lifters..
So I am just debating if I should split the case since the crank spins smooth and seems like measurements are OK. I still need to do a thorough clean of the exterior.
Would you guys split the case at this stage and do the full deal? I am leaning in that direction. I will do a valve job, P&C's need to be checked so maybe that all it needs? 120k km on this motor. I am doing a bone stock resto so no modifications.
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
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David, if you decide to split the case, have some case savers installed while it's apart. That way, when you go to reassemble it, you won't pull a head stud out of the case when torquing up the heads.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| David, if you decide to split the case, have some case savers installed while it's apart. That way, when you go to reassemble it, you won't pull a head stud out of the case when torquing up the heads. |
Thanks Bob good suggestion. Even though I will most likely split it and do a complete rebuild I am curious considering my measurements, if it's just asking for trouble. If I do go all the way, I am liking the idea of a counterweighted crank which i know isnt stock but had one in a bug many years ago and it made a very noticeable difference. In any case I like things clean, and balanced..Any idea if that drip you see in the last photo would be some kind of sealant? Its hard and not oily, kind of comes off in chips. Just curious as I didn't think the factory used any sealants on the case halves.
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17968
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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TramsDisciple split the case & put new bearings & camshaft etc in my new 1600.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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THe factory used some of that black sealer.
It gets hard and crispy and chips away 50 years later.
IMHO, you might as well take the whole thing apart.
That way you can get the case tanked, and get it clean clean.
Unless you get the oil out of the crevices, it will be hard to get it oil-tight.
x2 on the counterweighted crank.
It's only like an extra $100, so why not?
Best to inspect the bearings, cam, lifters, etc.
How would you feel if you got it all back together and found out a cam lobe was going away, or the oil pressure was low?
Putting an oil filter on is always a good idea, too.
There you are, right?
Might as well do it now.
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Got any pics of the sandblasting or metal work?
Hopefully, body/paint shops in your area are different than here.
Here, they take your money, get a much of the car in bare metal, push it into the far corner of the yard, outside, where it gets super rusty.
Then they lose a bunch of your parts, let months/years go past, ask for more money, and make excuses, until you go and get your car back 3x as rusty as it was...
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
THe factory used some of that black sealer.
It gets hard and crispy and chips away 50 years later.
IMHO, you might as well take the whole thing apart.
That way you can get the case tanked, and get it clean clean.
Unless you get the oil out of the crevices, it will be hard to get it oil-tight.
x2 on the counterweighted crank.
It's only like an extra $100, so why not?
Best to inspect the bearings, cam, lifters, etc.
How would you feel if you got it all back together and found out a cam lobe was going away, or the oil pressure was low?
Putting an oil filter on is always a good idea, too.
There you are, right?
Might as well do it now. |
Ahhh the voice of reason...thanks Clatter. IT SHALL BE DONE. I've never done a full rebuild so this will be fun!
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Got any pics of the sandblasting or metal work?
Hopefully, body/paint shops in your area are different than here.
Here, they take your money, get a much of the car in bare metal, push it into the far corner of the yard, outside, where it gets super rusty.
Then they lose a bunch of your parts, let months/years go past, ask for more money, and make excuses, until you go and get your car back 3x as rusty as it was... |
Unfortunately, no. My ride is 3rd in line at the shop. The body was lifted only to reveal heater channels worse than expected so I'm hunting parts for that. I dont expect it to be done before April, but luckily its inside under cover so the Danish Winter won't hurt it.
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Dlglobal1 wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
Got any pics of the sandblasting or metal work?
Hopefully, body/paint shops in your area are different than here.
Here, they take your money, get a much of the car in bare metal, push it into the far corner of the yard, outside, where it gets super rusty.
Then they lose a bunch of your parts, let months/years go past, ask for more money, and make excuses, until you go and get your car back 3x as rusty as it was... |
Unfortunately, no. My ride is 3rd in line at the shop. The body was lifted only to reveal heater channels worse than expected so I'm hunting parts for that. I dont expect it to be done before April, but luckily its inside under cover so the Danish Winter won't hurt it. |
Sorry to hear you have some heater channel issues going on. I'd imagine the weather conditions there would do a number on them. Are they totally gone or possibly something that may be able to get patched up?
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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Dlglobal1
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 350
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
| Dlglobal1 wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
Got any pics of the sandblasting or metal work?
Hopefully, body/paint shops in your area are different than here.
Here, they take your money, get a much of the car in bare metal, push it into the far corner of the yard, outside, where it gets super rusty.
Then they lose a bunch of your parts, let months/years go past, ask for more money, and make excuses, until you go and get your car back 3x as rusty as it was... |
Unfortunately, no. My ride is 3rd in line at the shop. The body was lifted only to reveal heater channels worse than expected so I'm hunting parts for that. I dont expect it to be done before April, but luckily its inside under cover so the Danish Winter won't hurt it. |
Sorry to hear you have some heater channel issues going on. I'd imagine the weather conditions there would do a number on them. Are they totally gone or possibly something that may be able to get patched up? |
Not totally gone, but when the body came off the bottom piece of the heater channel basically disintegrated. The inner portion and upper sill pieces are ok. The front´(very bottom of the A pillar) is bad. The pan edge from the "S" all the way to the B pillar and a bit beyond is also pretty bad. So all in all, allot of fab work ahead. I have a nice set of NOS outer skins and can get repro pieces for some of the pan, but its still worse than expected. However, it can all be fixed and the rest of the car is in great shape so that just the restoration game!! I'm leaving the body work to a pro and I'm doing the motor myself.
_________________
Cheers, David
1969 Bug
1972 Bug
1968 Mercedes 230 "Heckflosse"
1970 Type 3 Fastback 1600 TA L60D |
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