Building a 74 mm Stroke by 88 mm bore with 042 or 044 heads?

Danwvw · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject:

Getting new heads as soon as I figure out what to get. Sounds like 044's are a bit of a mis match and the L3's would perform about like what I have. Like the flow numbers though on those Los Panchito's above here in the thread!
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[email protected] · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject:

If you have stock heater boxes you are asking for problems with 40 x 35mm or larger. We regularly see over 120hp with L3s, so I would hardly compare them to stock DP heads.
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fastone · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:21 pm Post subject:

OK I'll bite what kind of problems would he have from running 35mm ex valve with stock heater boxes.

[email protected] · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject:

It's "challenging" to tune, and it will run hotter (overheat).

The whole point of us developing the L3 was to run the biggest head we could with stock heater boxes. If you want more head you really should get a larger exhaust to match.

Mismatched parts is the cause of so much headache in this hobby, it still astounds me how many thirsty horses there are out there.

AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW

Danwvw · Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject:

Good to hear the L3's can make that much power, I did not know that. Yes I have done a little reading and understand that the Large valves can cause a problem. Larger exhaust valves and ports may not flow well at all against the stock heater pipes, I would imagine there needs to be a certain ratio between the flow velocity in the exhaust valves in the heads and the most restricted part of the exhaust system. Probably something like 1:1 or less. Maybe a lot less because the combustion chamber pressure is so high compared to the pressure in the exhaust system. Head gas velocity:Exhaust system gas velocity.
Not sure what the fellow in the other 71 Bus did to make the 044 Heads work so well with 40X35.5 mm valves and stock heater boxes. (Found out his 044 heads were from CB Performance and required .020" Flycut along with some chamber work to achieve the 8.5:1CR)
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59sc · Samba Member Joined: September 14, 2004 Posts: 49

I bought a set of L3's from DRD about 6 months ago for a 76x88 I'm building for a camper with tq and MPG in mind to road trip.

Heads have 12mm plugs and no step. John, are these ok and what castings do you think they are?

I was told they were 59cc clambers and they are more like 61cc. Then I checked the valve seats with diesel and more than half leaked.

So since I need to flycut anyway to get to my 8.25 cr with .040-.050 deck I went to a reputable HP head shop and he said to back cut the valves/ check valve job and match port the intakes. Question is would it be worth doing any additional porting since I'm there?

Combo is 76x88, 5.325 short rods, slr XV 272 cam on 106 lobe center, specs @.050 233, 10.5 IO / 42.5 IC no built in advance .430 w/ 1.1-1, 36mm dells, SVDA, an extractor with dual quiet packs. 8.25 cr is what I'm thinking but open to opinions

ach60 · Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:57 am Post subject:

Danwvw · Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:09 am Post subject:

After being lead to water I am still looking over the fence for greener pastures. But if the L3's can make 120 HP that is 16% more power than say 100 HP with a stock head. The thing is, these smaller 1600-1800cc engines may not be able to produce 100 HP with stock heads or 120 HP with L3's at least not at a reasonable engine RPM but the 1849cc may be getting closer! 59sc how are you correcting deck height for the extra 1 mm that the 76mm crank is going to add?
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[email protected] · Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:13 am Post subject:

Alstrup just finished a 1585cc engine, ported stock DP heads, Web 163 clone (1.25 rockers on intake, 1.1s on exhaust), dual 2bbls (32mm venturis), 1 3/8" header, 110hp and a very wide torque band (I'd call it a curve, but it's quite flat).

The Type 1 head doesn't need much lift on the exhaust, which is why the higher lift on the intake. You don't HAVE to use a split duration cam, you can use different ratio rockers to achieve a similar effect.

Additional displacement is only going to make more power and a flatter torque band.

Also, L3s outflow stock heads by 30%.
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AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW

Danwvw · Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject:

[email protected] · Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject:

Altewagen, do you EVER have anything to say about us other than scathing criticism? Who's payroll are you on anyways? I come here to help and the only thing you ever say about us is to give us shit about SOMETHING.

I'll see you guys in January. Bye.
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It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

"Like" our Facebook page at
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59sc · Samba Member Joined: September 14, 2004 Posts: 49

Danwvw.....

With the shorter rod I get about .020 neg deck (piston out of cyl) so I'm going with a .020 shim under cyl and then a .050 copper under head as of now, I used them before in a 1904

AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW

Sorry to come off as criticism, I just want to know. Statements are made and I ask for information to make sense of it.

Ive never said you didnt build that 120hp engine with your L3s, I just would like to know HOW you did it. Alstrup put up a dyno sheet to demonstrate what was possible with stock valve head and when asked he gladly put the specs.

This industry is full of smoke and mirrors where vendors sell the same parts as everyone else and claim it to be their own. I get it, its called marketing.

I dont expect you to give up super technical data but I dont think information like manufacturer of the parts should be top secret.

You have a huge loyal customer base who worships your every word, if you were to reveal the origin of your parts even if they could be purchased directly from the source Im sure they would still support your shop.

Enjoy your holiday and may your new year bring you even more success.

Just for the record I am retired and no longer work in the VW industry due to the lies, posturing and greed that is rampant these days. I would rather continue to love working on these little cars than see them strictly as dollar signs.
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AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW

Here is the newest version of the list

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[email protected] · Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:27 am Post subject:

Danwvw · Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject:

Roy, which performance dual port heads for dual carbs would you like to see on a 1585-1904cc Type 1 Engine (W110 cam) for a daily driver Bus using stock 1.25" id heater boxes? I noticed the MOFOCO Shop makes some heads special order. Can small 32mm exhaust valves be used on a better flowing head than the L3 (122 cfm)? Which head? Would that be a solution to overcoming the restriction of the stock heater boxes?
Hope you get what you want for Christmas!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[email protected] · Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject:

vwracerdave · Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject:

Roy pull your head out of the clouds. Your not the only game in town. Gene Berg, Bernie Bergmann, SCAT, and even GEX has as much or more machinery then you do.
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1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK


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Building a 74 mm Stroke by 88 mm bore with 042 or 044 heads?
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