TheSamba.com
>Help  >Donate  >Buy Shirts  >Register  >Log in See all Samba banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com
 
Which gun?
Forum Index -> Body/Paint Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mulcheese
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
Mulcheese is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Which gun? Reply with quote

I will be tying painting my van in the next year and I have tracked down some guns. Which is the better all around gun?

I own a powermate, I know probably junk.
Access to an Apollo 100ASG or a Sharpe 75.

All of which are old and in rough shape. Which of the 3 would you choose.
_________________
82 Westy: Air is cool!
03 Jetta wgn
10 Jetta le
The Family!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bowtiebug
Samba Member


Joined: March 17, 2013
Posts: 910
Location: North Texas
bowtiebug is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of the above .


save yourself a lot of headaches and buy a new gun or set one for primer and one for paint .

these are the low end guns but much better then the above mentioned


http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/devilbiss-starting...13726.aspx
_________________
http://www.etsy.com/shop/AlphaKnots
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CanadianBug
Samba Member


Joined: September 05, 2008
Posts: 204
Location: South Western Ontario
CanadianBug is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.
With the price of those new DeVilbiss guns, you can't go wrong.

I used a Sharpe 75 waaaaayyyy back in the 80s. It was a very nice gun at the time but unless it was somewhat looked after, it'll need a rebuild by now.

Mike
_________________
skills@eurocarsplus wrote:


bodywork isn't a fucking race.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
dirtkeeper
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 2089
Location: Left of everywhere
dirtkeeper is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a pro here but just finished up my 5th car paint ,

I have a harbor freight hvlp gun that I got for like $15 ,it works great for primer . I haven't tried it for a finish coat .

I splurged on a used snap-on hvlp that really makes for easy finish painting.

A high quality hvlp for the finish coat really helps, buy or borrow one for the finish. I would go hvlp for sure
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mulcheese
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
Mulcheese is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. Im new to this painting on my own thing so fill me in. HVLP is the way to go from what I hear. What are these guns? Are they not HVLP? If I was to use one of these for say primer and get a new one for finish which of these should I keep? I know that they are not the newest or in greata condition but they will probably be thrown out so which one would you save, Apollo or Sharpe?

Thanks
_________________
82 Westy: Air is cool!
03 Jetta wgn
10 Jetta le
The Family!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bowtiebug
Samba Member


Joined: March 17, 2013
Posts: 910
Location: North Texas
bowtiebug is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HVLP = High Volume @ Low Pressure

you could possibly use one for primer depending on nozzle size , but for $200 i would buy new , a gummed up paint gun can be big hassels and create a lots of extra work , I speak from experiance .
_________________
http://www.etsy.com/shop/AlphaKnots
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mulcheese
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
Mulcheese is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="bowtiebug"]HVLP = High Volume @ Low Pressure

Yes I understand that. Are the guns I have HVLP? And if so which is the better gun?

Thanks
_________________
82 Westy: Air is cool!
03 Jetta wgn
10 Jetta le
The Family!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3240

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What size tips do they have?

That will likely tell you which would be better for primer. You likely need a 1.8 tip or larger (for hi build) for your primer and a 1.5 tip for your finish.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
CanadianBug
Samba Member


Joined: September 05, 2008
Posts: 204
Location: South Western Ontario
CanadianBug is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the other guns, but the Sharpe 75 was around when HVLP was just a theory.
_________________
skills@eurocarsplus wrote:


bodywork isn't a fucking race.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Mulcheese
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
Mulcheese is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CanadianBug wrote:
I don't know about the other guns, but the Sharpe 75 was around when HVLP was just a theory.


From what I have dug up it runs on 50psi and has a spray tip of 1.8. Im still trying to find more info on it.

If this gun is free and more than likely will be trashed Id like to use it before it is thrown.
_________________
82 Westy: Air is cool!
03 Jetta wgn
10 Jetta le
The Family!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dirtkeeper
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 2089
Location: Left of everywhere
dirtkeeper is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mulcheese wrote:
CanadianBug wrote:
I don't know about the other guns, but the Sharpe 75 was around when HVLP was just a theory.


From what I have dug up it runs on 50psi and has a spray tip of 1.8. Im still trying to find more info on it.

If this gun is free and more than likely will be trashed Id like to use it before it is thrown.


sure it would work... the HVLPs work at about 8-15 lbs and have much less overspray. i am cheap and have a few of those old school type around but for $15 bucks from harbopr freight i would get one of those instead . when i did mine i ended up spraying a total of about 2 quarts of primer over several days and i didnt cover anything and only have minimum overspray. the 50psi gun will get a lot more overspray everywhere and is a little harder on your compressor ie you need to have larger air tank and strong compressor. I used a 30 gallon on my car but i have sprayed small projects with both my cheapie and my good snap on using only a 2.5 gallon compressor with good results
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Noasx250
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Lake Alfred, Fl
Noasx250 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself wouldn't spray with anything but a well built newer spray gun. They have come a long way since the old Sharpes I used to use only sharpe back in the day. I am not a spray gun snob but the clears now days VOC are much higher and require a better atomizing gun. I can get any gun to spray well but the difference from the right set up will make the paint job almost effortless. Right now I am spraying with a Sagola 4400 HVLP with a 1.3 fluid tip.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mulcheese
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
Mulcheese is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After looking in to it I think I will go new. Probably the Devilbiss. I will still hold onto the Sharpe just because it was from the same time as the van.

Thanks
_________________
82 Westy: Air is cool!
03 Jetta wgn
10 Jetta le
The Family!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bowtiebug
Samba Member


Joined: March 17, 2013
Posts: 910
Location: North Texas
bowtiebug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good choice
_________________
http://www.etsy.com/shop/AlphaKnots
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
buguy
Samba Member


Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Port Orange, FL
buguy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noasx250 wrote:
I myself wouldn't spray with anything but a well built newer spray gun. They have come a long way since the old Sharpes I used to use only sharpe back in the day. I am not a spray gun snob but the clears now days VOC are much higher and require a better atomizing gun. I can get any gun to spray well but the difference from the right set up will make the paint job almost effortless. Right now I am spraying with a Sagola 4400 HVLP with a 1.3 fluid tip.


Hey I spray with a Sagola 4500 Xtreme! Thought I was nearly the only one working with those. Have a 3300 Pro for primer and the Mini Xtreme as well.
I dont think its necessary anymore to spray with HVLP, pretty much all guns have at least 65% transfer effeciancy. HVLP guns produce more orange peel by design. I would never use HVLP for clear.
But its pretty hard to beat Devilbiss for availiability, quality, and price. I used to have a Devilbiss 670 "Plus" gun that was a good all around gun and not too pricy. I have heard the new Teckna copper is good as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CanadianBug
Samba Member


Joined: September 05, 2008
Posts: 204
Location: South Western Ontario
CanadianBug is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buguy wrote:
I dont think its necessary anymore to spray with HVLP, pretty much all guns have at least 65% transfer effeciancy. HVLP guns produce more orange peel by design. I would never use HVLP for clear.
But its pretty hard to beat Devilbiss for availiability, quality, and price. I used to have a Devilbiss 670 "Plus" gun that was a good all around gun and not too pricy. I have heard the new Teckna copper is good as well.

Around here, bodyshops need to be using a "compliant" spray gun and that means HVLP, LVLP or an RP gun. Most shops use HVLP, it's been pretty much the standard for 15 or 20 years.
HVLP doesn't produce orange peel, the painter does. With a bit of practice and determination, a spray job with an HVLP can look like glass, top to bottom and end to end.
I started using an HVLP gun around '91 or '92, a SATA NR92. Going from a SATA 90 and DeVilbiss JGA, it was a huge learning curve and I was ready to throw in the towel until a paint rep spent an hour with me in the booth. A few tips and some explanation of how the gun works was all it took.
That NR92 was a dinosaur compared to today's guns...

My boss uses those Tekna guns, swears by them.
I prefer my IWATAs for bases and clears and an old DeVilbiss GTi for single layers.

Mike
_________________
skills@eurocarsplus wrote:


bodywork isn't a fucking race.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
buguy
Samba Member


Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Port Orange, FL
buguy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get ya man. But really I dont know that they even make a conventional gun anymore do they? But I totally disagree, HVLP by design will produce or more likely to produce orange peel than a compliant or RP type gun. I would be willing to bet money you dont clear with an HVLP gun, and there is a good reason for that. Im not saying that every time by every person HVLP will give peel, but I would guess 99.9% thats true.

By the way I base with a Sata 3000 digital HVLP. But i bought it a long time ago. It does a nice job laying base and real even metallics, but I sure wouldnt use it for clears. In fact I wouldnt ever bother buying another HVLP. Its simply not necessary with like you said, the LVLP and RP stuff on the market that atomizes much better than HVLP.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djway3474
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2011
Posts: 1431
Location: The Real NDK So Cal
djway3474 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been looking at paint jobs coming out of shops these days with the new guns and paints and they all look like the very first paint job I ever tried. Orange Peel. They think it looks good. I was pissed at my first attempt. By the time I stopped I never had to color sand and they were all like glass.
I have been freaking out trying to figure out what to do as you cant get the good solvents here in Cali which is where the real problems seems to be from what I have heard.
I don't know if you can thin out more than recommended and use an older gun but I need a lot more information before I shoot my next projects
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CanadianBug
Samba Member


Joined: September 05, 2008
Posts: 204
Location: South Western Ontario
CanadianBug is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buguy wrote:
I get ya man. But really I dont know that they even make a conventional gun anymore do they? But I totally disagree, HVLP by design will produce or more likely to produce orange peel than a compliant or RP type gun. I would be willing to bet money you dont clear with an HVLP gun, and there is a good reason for that. Im not saying that every time by every person HVLP will give peel, but I would guess 99.9% thats true.

By the way I base with a Sata 3000 digital HVLP. But i bought it a long time ago. It does a nice job laying base and real even metallics, but I sure wouldnt use it for clears. In fact I wouldnt ever bother buying another HVLP. Its simply not necessary with like you said, the LVLP and RP stuff on the market that atomizes much better than HVLP.

All my guns are HVLP. The last regular production-style gun I used was probably back around the mid 90s.
Truthfully, my IWATA LVLP does a better job with clears than my IWATA HVLP, but only because I find it faster. For occasional use (I don't paint everyday anymore) I like the DeVilbiss. It will lay out HS clear just about as good as anything else I've ever used, and I find it the most comfortable gun I've ever held onto.

Mike
_________________
skills@eurocarsplus wrote:


bodywork isn't a fucking race.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
buguy
Samba Member


Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Port Orange, FL
buguy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to guess I would think its either the shooters are of lesser quality or its the difference in materiasl compared to what they were before, if your seeing orange peel more often. The quality of guns have improved vastly in the last 10 years or so. But really if you are going to make a real nice paint job you are going to want to cut and buff the clear anyway, so a little peel really isnt a huge deal.

Canadian: Thats interesting you say that. Your the only one I have ever heard that had any sort of good quality spray with clear and an HVLP gun. Most HVLP guns simply dont atomize well enough to get a good spray with clear. Especially the HS stuff. I had a 670 plus Devilbiss and I really liked it, but it didnt lay clear like a Sata 3000 RP or like my new Sagola, and it produced quite a bit more overspray as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Body/Paint All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB