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wythac
Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004
Posts: 2791
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 Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe, this ought to make you feel better, I last priced 1.5" .120 wall DOM here at about $5.25/ft. I didn't buy at that price. I'm going to use CREW for my accessory work (roof rack and spare mount) if I can't find enough DOM scraps in my bin to make what I need. |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Wow! That is a serious price.
I will have to come clean on how I get it that cheap. I first bought the 1 5/8" 0.120 DOM in from this supplier in 2006. Every time I go back to buy it again, I take the previous receipt so they can see what I bought, what I paid and they just ring it up the same, again and again. I always take the most recent receipt, and they just do not look up the price because I am such a small order (Large company that ships trailer loads every day). I do buy over 5 - 24' joints to get the price break, and I go upstairs to the sales department instead of calling the 800 number they ask me to call each time I get it.
So, at some point my jig will be up and the fun and games will be over. I think I have enough on hand to build my Manx II, then we will see if I can get it again at the good price.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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You sly dog!  |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Laid some color down on the tins for the engine this evening. Base and clear. The metalic is so heavy, it took three times longer than usual to clean the gun out.
It is hard to get a good picture that properly represents the color. More of a Burnt Orange.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I thought I saw a blemish in the paint on one of your cylinder covers.  Then I realized it was some CRAP my kids got on the monitor!  |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| SBD wrote: |
| I thought I saw a blemish in the paint on one of your cylinder covers. Then I realized it was some CRAP my kids got on the monitor! |
I know what you are talking about. I had to tell the wife that my new computer was not a touch screen.
Once I get the exhaust back from ceramic coating, it will be ready to fire up and break in.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:50 am Post subject: |
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I picked up the Ceramic Coated Header/exhaust system from the coater today and slipped it on the engine.
The Titanium color looks a little like a dull aluminum with a little honey mixed in, just like the titanium valves I ran on my drag rail. Helps make the Orange stand out on the engine tins.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Driftin
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2012
Posts: 141
Location: Wilsonville, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Great paint color, how many quarts of paint did the body take? How many coats of color/clear did you put on? Pics? |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Driftin wrote: |
| Great paint color, how many quarts of paint did the body take? How many coats of color/clear did you put on? Pics? |
Well, this build stopped just as you see it. It is currently sitting in my enclosed car trailer awaiting it's finishing turn.
The reason it got stopped is to allow me to complete my Manx II build for a upcoming trip to CA and back in July. I will get back to this one in August. Then I can give you a report to how much paint it takes.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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quail hound
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2014
Posts: 47
Location: Madera, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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I like that color alot Joe. Its a long ways down the road on my buggy since my paint is pretty nice but I already have my paint picked out.  Volcanic orange candy I think its called.
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Wow! I am liking that color choice. That will look sweet on the flowing lines of a buggy.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Big Daddy Houseboater
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Central California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Excellent build thread. One of the best I have seen. I am interested in the progress this summer. |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Big Daddy Houseboater wrote: |
| Excellent build thread. One of the best I have seen. I am interested in the progress this summer. |
Thanks!
Since I have returned from the trip across the US to the Big Bear Manx Club event, I have applied some mixed up Cabosil to the holes that have been drilled in the body. I have had the body outside baking in the sun to help cure the Cabosil. In about one more week, I will start the body work prepping for paint.
I still have not fired the engine to break it in, so, not much. But, I did completely build another buggy since last working on this one.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Because all of these modifications were made to the engine I built for this Sears Rascal, I figured I would copy it and post it on this thread.
The moderator moved Vincent's cooling question over to the Engine and Performance forums, so, the intended audience I was seeking to help being here and may never search the other forum for it, I thought I may keep a portion in this forum to help whom it may.
| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
I could not remember the "ear wax" comparison Tim, but that is a better taste description of that beer. Sure glad I did not buy a 6 pack.
In my opinion, for what we do as buggy builders and drivers, the aftermarket 36 horse Dog House fan shrouds work very well when combined with the other factory, or modified to factory style tins. Chrome, painted, powder coated will only make a percentage of a percent as VWCOOL stated, only measurable to a very small degree, if at all.
I like the 36 horse Dog House best of all for pure looks, to get that clean, simple appearance. And I have used them a lot with great success.
Since there is an interest in this, to further along the discussion, being a engineer, I have admiration for other train drivers, and those German ones were pretty sharp. So, I tend to like to use the testing and conclusions they came to on how to cool the VW engine with good success. One little small tin I also use is on the bottom side of the heads found on stock heads. I "barrow" these and put them on the aftermarket heads I buy. It is a small square tin that keeps the air from just passing through, but forces the air to pass around it and through the cooling fins. This, like the air foil in my first post is crucial for the spark plug quench area, the area that is most prone to cracking in a dual port head.
As a top of the line fan shroud based purely on cooling capacity and efficiency, but without heating ducting, the Thing shroud is it. It has a smooth rear face for a more simple look, but has all the German engineering in it and it has been tested with Empirical data to cool the best of anything VW made. Problem is, they are as rare as hens teeth to get. VW only made them from '69 to '73, with the Dog House version in only '73 and only the '73 was imported into the US, in low numbers. Since they are so hard to get and when you can, they are expensive to buy, and usually have been beat on pretty good, I use the aftermarket dog house 36 horse design. Here is a Thing Dog House Shroud.
Questions are asked about the underneath cooling tins, what is needed? What should I run? Do I need this piece? The original upright design used a combination of underneath tins to direct the air around the heads and cylinders to keep them evenly cool and promote long wearing cylinders without hot spots. The full set up combines the Sleds, the square piece between the cylinders, the rear small piece that bolts up under the rear breast plate. All of these are needed to direct/force the air around the bottom of the cylinders so that the bottoms are not hot, warp and then start smoking prematurely.
It can be seen in this picture how the sleds and rear short piece aide in directing the air around the cylinder and head cooling fins. So, when some of these pieces are left off, some of the cooling efficiency is sacrificed and compromised.
When VW created the Type III, the pancake or flat engine had some hot spots on the cylinders that caused early wear and the engine to start using oil and smoking. The solution was the Type III cooling tins. These tins directed air around the bottom of the cylinders very well and cooled those hot spots. This is an original Type II cylinder cooling tin, with the VW logo on it. Looks just like the aftermarket ones produced. I use these instead of the sleds, breast plate and short cooling pieces.
Here is that tin installed on a upright engine. You can see how it will direct the air around the cylinders cooling all around it and not just to top and sides of the cylinders.
I like the more open look of the engine in a buggy without the sleds, so I use the Type three cool tins, but modify them as can be seen in my first post in this thread, to help capture all the air and keep it where it will cool the engine.
Another often over looked tin is the Hoover Bit. This tiny piece bolts to the Dog House cooler and keeps the air from blowing down and directs it through the cooler. It is small and most get broken and left off when new coolers are installed. It also picks up a bolt hole on the front side of the shroud helping hold the fan shroud steady.
Now, this last piece of tin I like to use is just for personal preference and I have not been able to determine if it helps cooling or not ON A BUGGY, but I use it because it offers something else other than cooling. It helps protect the dog house oil cooler from debris if you run yours off road. It may help, but in a very rare instance. I use it because I have it, and, just me being me.
Now, I am a mechanical anal person. My paint and taste of visual design are no where near the top, but I get OCD on my mechanicals. Can you run a VW AC engine without some of this stuff? Yes. Lots of people do. But, most VW's do not get a lot of miles put on them, or the miles are short when they get driven. Then, buggy's usually get driven even less.
The buggy's I build, I build to get driven, a lot, and far trips. So, in addition to top of the line brake parts I choose, top of the line wheel bearings, top of the line engine bearings, crankshafts, forged pistons, top of the line tie rod ends and the list goes on.............. I also like a well engineered cooling system.
On the recent ECVW trip, I ran hard out of Nevada into CA climbing that mountain and crossing Death Valley at 70 MPH in 117* heat generating 325* head temps, 205* oil temps and oil pressure of 52 pounds while running 2900 RPM. This was in a buggy weighing around 2900 pounds loaded pushing it with a big 2165cc engine running dual carbs. I think all the little details did help that engine stay cool. |
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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gr8cobbler
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006
Posts: 916
Location: Midlife Crisis, Midwest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to argue with success.  That trip is a pretty good testament to honoring the German tin. Great pictures as always.
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Gary
Being a cheap old fart is just a front for my actual lack of money. |
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RedBaronofRedBud
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2013
Posts: 505
Location: Southeast Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, Joe! I have the lower tins like you but not the hoover bit or the oil cooler extension. We ran about 230 oil temps across the same stretch you mentioned with a stock 1600dp. Our pressure was right at 10 psi per 1000 rpm. We also ran partial synth Renegade oil too. Gonna look into those other items too. Devil is in the details!
_________________
Or you can call me………Tim
My two pennies…your mileage may vary
I’m not a complete idiot, there are parts missing |
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Tom_Kathleen
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2004
Posts: 919
Location: Vernon, CT
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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I also had the German sheet metal and Type 3 lower tins on the buggy Kathleen & I drove on the ECVW. In the 4 corners area it was @ 110F and the oil temp was 180F at 65 - 70 mph. I don't have a head temp gauge, so I can't say what that was. At one of the stops, Joe used his laser temp gauge and we were one of the lowest engine temps. I fabbed up some sleds because of the Manx Sidewinder exhaust mostly to protect the push rod tubes and direct the engine heat out the back. Tom
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Manxter #16, 1968 Meyers Manx & Kick-Out SS #16 (WIP)
Manx Club & CVA |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Because I am ONLY 1 year late on my goal, and that MOTB starts in 45 days, it is again crunch time.
Picking up where I left off to build my Puzzle Manx, it is body work and paint time.
The rear tail section of the rascal was just to flimsy for me. Before I puledl the body from the chassis during mock up, I took some measurement of where and how big I could make some braces underneath to stop a majority of the flex.
I flipped the body to make it easy to get to, then cut some cardboard panels. Marked the area and ground to clean raw glass. Cut some woven glass and glassed over the cardboard to make a bonded brace. This way I do not have any bolts sticking through the tail section.
Then back to the body dolly for body work. This is the nicest body I have ever started with. Very little repair, (especially compared to the Puzzle Manx) and hit it with a DA Sander running 80 grit pads. This will give a good surface to lay the high build primer onto. Some small areas needed a super thin coat of body filler over the Cabosil to smooth it out.
It can be seen in this picture how little body filler remains after block sanding. Just enough to fill nicks, sand scratches and gouges in the body.
Tomorrow I will lay down several coats of primer on the body and hood. Then I am throwing a Block Party! Everyone is invited! Come and I will give you a block to sand with.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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RedBaronofRedBud
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2013
Posts: 505
Location: Southeast Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| Because I am ONLY 1 year late on my goal, and that MOTB starts in 45 days, it is again crunch time. |
It wouldnt be a JoeCoolCustom without crunch time. 
| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| Tomorrow I will lay down several coats of primer on the body and hood. Then I am throwing a Block Party! Everyone is invited! Come and I will give you a block to sand with. |
I guess youre doing your best Tom Sawyer imitation there! Next thing you know, we will be paying you for the privilege of sanding on one of your buggies!
However, sanding on a buggy with good buddies sounds much better than working Labor Day weekend. 
I look forward to watching this build progress to its fruition! 
_________________
Or you can call me………Tim
My two pennies…your mileage may vary
I’m not a complete idiot, there are parts missing |
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Ratt
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2003
Posts: 753
Location: Puyallup, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ugh, working on Labor Day, don't remind me. Looking good, still waiting to see what the final product turns out like! |
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