73 Rolling Creamsicle

[plotch]

Ride at smugglers. Work there too. Ground Hog day on sunday! Snow, Snow, More SNOW!

[NewTechnicIan]

Haha Plotch, let's hope so. It's been a dud of a winter thus far. Also, thanks for getting me to page 3!

Ok, this may be a big update, I finally got some feeler gauges and a micrometer out to look at my case, crank, and rods!

Ah, before I start my specs and questions, I should say that my plans have shifted somewhat and I think what I'd really like to make out of this engine is a mileage-friendly 1641 with an external oil system. I'll probably run the stock carb for a while and upgrade to dual carbs eventually.

My case:
AK model, so it seems that someone replaced the case during the life of the car. I still wanted to see what it looked like in there so I proceeded to tear down the engine. She fought me every step of the way and I ended up with some pretty bloody knuckles, but I got the case apart. Got pretty clean after a couple baths and a lot of scrubbing!

One bummer about the case was that the area around the oil sump had some pretty deep chips out of them. I read you could get away with re-using a case like this, just using some JB weld around that area, especially if you're planning on running external oil filtration (which I am). In any case, you can kind of see the chip in the case where the oil screen stud ISNT.

Other than that, everything came out pretty easily, except for the oil pump piece that was still left in, I didn't know that was bakelite! It wouldn't budge and cracked apart on me if I tried to hammer it out. Got it out, but it was a pain.

Also, it took a lot of effort to get the distributor driveshaft out, anyone know if that's normal? Took a good amount of hammering it in and out for it to finally fly free of the case. No galling or marks anywhere though.

Anyway, Case specs:
Piston diameters: 90mm (Just checking in case I someone had made this a higher displacement engine without my knowledge!)
Left Side Case:
Main bearings:
#1 - 2.5565"
#2 - 2.5580"
#3 - 2.5590"
#4 - 1.9670"
Flywheel Oil Seal: 3.5415"
Oil Pump: 2.7550"
All cam bearing bores and lifters were within spec or a little on the small side.

ALL of those are a little smaller than the Wilson book calls out. Must be a very new case or I'm measuring diameter wrong. This becomes a theme.

Right Side Case:
#1 - 2.5580"
#2 - 2.5585"
#3 - 2.5565"
#4 - 1.9660"
Flywheel Oil Seal: 3.5410"
Oil Pump: 2.7560"
Again, all cam bearings and lifter bores were within spec or small.

Next I started looking at the crankshaft. I checked rod side clearance to make sure that no connecting rod was over .016".
Rod side clearances:
#1 - .016"
#2 - .012"
#3 - .012"
#4 - .011"

I wondered at this point if it would be advisable to think about either a new crank or connecting rods, since my #1 connecting rod was a little loose.

After tearing down the crank, my concerns deepened a bit.
Main bearing journals:
#1 - 2.1600"
#2 - 2.1575"
#3 ~2.1600" - Hard to read since I haven't pressed off my gears yet
#4 - 1.5650

Connecting rod bearing journals:
#1 - 2.1445"
#2 - 2.1445"
#3 - 2.1445"
#4 - 2.1440"

All of these are a good amount below the minimum spec on a crankshaft. I'm betting this is the original crank that got reused.
Anyone have any advices on whether to use it again? It seems that I should probably get one that is closer to stock dimensions...

Onto the connecting rods!
No signs of unreasonable wear and they all checked out between 605.5 and 609.5 grams, within allowable tolerance of each other, especially since I'm not planning on building a behemoth of an engine

Oil pump: While the pump looked fine, I cleaned it up and checked the gear fit. I found that the gears had a little lash to them, I could hear a faint clack when I wiggled one while holding the other still. I was thinking I'd replace that anyway and go with a full flow pump like CB Performance has:
http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1554

Camshaft: I was thinking about getting a mileage cam, kind of like:
http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2228
I didn't take any measurements on my original except to note that it's a -4 for lash.
That seems extreme, anyone have any insight there?

Alright, so that concludes the engine internals post. Anyone have suggestions on what P&C's to get for a 1641? I will probably bring this to a machinist anyway so if I need some machining done on the cylinder bores that would be ok too.
All input is welcome folks,

Thanks all!
Ian
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[plotch]

Lots of questions. I'll try a couple of answers. The distributor has an o-ring that can bind on removal. The drive is just tricky. Do not lose the washers at the bottom of the drive. The top of your pistons should have the size stamped. 90mm is bigger than stock. Actually they are probably 90.5 and are used to make a 1776 engine with the stock crank. You will need to clean up the oil sump area so as to get a good seal. Do you have someone to check your parts? Do you need new stuff? Some of it should be still good.
You did a good job getting it nice and clean.

[NewTechnicIan]

Hey Plotch, I kept those washers, don't you worry. I remembered your story about having to drop them in the case after assembly!
In terms of checking parts I was either going to go by HowardVW in grand isle or RPM racing which you said did your case work, right?

I'll check the pistons. I meant that the ID of the cylinder holes in the case were 90mm which I think means it's stock. I should probably post a lot of these questions in the Engines section and see what crops up.
Thanks!
Ian
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[plotch]

Oops, more accurate to check the piston size. Whether or not you have an external filter the area at the oil sump plate needs to seal. There are several options, keep the oil screen. Also the price of cylinders and pistons is much the same no matter what size you order. Price of machining is also the same. I built a 1776, wish i had gone up a size.

[NewTechnicIan]

Been a bit since I got to work on the engine, but I finally cleaned up my heads to take a good look and didn't love what I saw, I asked in the performance section about keeping them...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590295
Looks like I'm in the market for new heads...
I guess when I paid $400 for the whole car to begin with, I shouldn't have expected to keep much
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

Ok, since the snow cleared at Dustin's place I got up there a couple nights this past week and surveyed last year's progress. I realized I didn't love what I saw. I'm gonna be proud of this car and I might as well do the work right and spend the longer dollar. First thing on my list was putting in newer metal to my wheelwell. I started on the driver side by cutting out my old crappy metal, grinding it down close to bearable, and priming it.

Got my new sheetmetal and used some sheetmetal screws to hold it to the body, and used my air cutoff wheel to cut the old and the new pieces to match.

A couple things I hadn't heard about when taking out this metal was what else was attached to it. The A pillar and the bulkhead both had to get cut off with the old sheet metal. Since I'm replacing the bulkhead I didn't have to mess around with drilling out almost non-existent spot welds

Here she is all freed up. I cleaned up the A pillar to be ready to plug weld it back together later.

Once the old stuff was removed, I got my butt weld clamps out and started fitting the new piece into place.

Started at the fender area to keep that as close a fit as possible, with some tacks then stitching it together.

I think I did an OK job keeping the curve of the fender area pretty true, shown below.

Worked my way over to the front of the wheel well stitching it all together.

Grinded and sanded for quite a while and while it's not perfect, it's my best attempt yet at a good butt weld. Good thing it'll be covered up under truck bed liner

Finished it up with plug welding and a coat of rust encapsulating primer to save my work in a nice spot.

Also, I've been getting some work done on the engine parts. Took apart my carb and got it way cleaner than it was.
Before:

One thing that I didn't know about until I was watching Youtube videos on how to clean it out was to take that tiny plug out above the main jet and make sure the ball bearing was free to move for the accelerator pump. Took me a lot of trying to get the plug out but I'm glad I checked.

After:

I also replaced my needle valve but the sealing surface is not quite so tight as my original was. Seems like the lip doesn't come down as far on this new one.
Also, what are the washers for in the carb rebuild kit? Noob question, I'm sure.

Thanks for reading!
Ian
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

Got back up and started in on some of the detail work around the A pillar. I had already done some work getting it pretty set up last year but I got it back almost to where I'm happy with it. Little tweaks and a couple new welds from here on in, so now I can start on the rest of the fender well, replacing fender nuts and the bumper mount!

Hit it with some weld thru primer just in case (that rust encapsulating stuff SUCKS to weld to if I decide I have more to do) and called it a night.
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[plotch]

Your progress is looking good.

[NewTechnicIan]

Thanks Paul!
Got a chance to putter around the car this weekend and made some good progress!
Cut out a fender nut and replaced it. My girlfriend had a turn at the welder and it came out pretty nice!

Replaced my Passenger A Pillar:

Got my Passenger wheelhouse tacked in and started welding:

and then I came to the big question:
Do I keep my front clip or replace it?
There's enough wrong with the thing that I'm debating replacing outright rather than patching onto somewhat rusty metal. I also posted this in Body/Paint (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=596606) But here we go:
Take a look at the pictures I've attached and see what you think.
Rusted and pitted old repair in the apron:

A piece with no replacement available in the trunk proper (the front beam mounts are also split and pretty rusted):

Replacing both bumper mounts and a good amount of metal in the spare tire well (I'll also have to replace a good amount of metal under the rails which I don't know how to bend up):

So, your opinions are welcome! After staring at this all weekend, I'm leaning towards replacing the front clip. With as much rust as there is, I'm just not sure it's worth saving the metal that's there. What do y'all think?
Thanks!
Ian
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[plotch]

Ian i have a front clip that if it is the same you can have it. Really really cheap as in free.

[NewTechnicIan]

Hey Paul,
Any pictures available? PM me if youd like. I did get a clip from a guy over in NY but if yours is available I'd like to see it!
Actually, by way of update to the blog, I got the clip in this post in body/paint, I got the beige one. Pretty psyched with it except there's a patch over the washer fluid area and some dents down on the apron.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=596606
Thanks for tuning in!
Ian
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[plotch]

Sorry Ian; just on this site today. No pictures of that clip. Maybe later this week i'll be in that direction.

[NewTechnicIan]

Howdy y'all,
Been a while. Been a busy summer but I've managed to get some work done.
The big thing I've been working on, and I'm betting there will be criticism for this, is putting my front bulkhead/crossmember/firewall in. What I realized when I started looking hard at it was that it was a firewall from early standard beetles, despite everyone's tag on websites that it is for up to 77's

What I bought:
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111805451gx

What it looks like with my car:

So you see the mismatch. Apparently this is what a superbeetle front firewall looks like but the heater channels and sides are so different it won't work on a standard beetle anyway.
Super beetle panel:
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=133805451g

Any case, I decided to move forward with the replacement anyway because the metal was going to be way sturdier on this panel than the rotted piece that I had
Pay no attention to the spot welds drilled out on the firewall. I went back and filled those in when I realized that I was going to have to do what you see below:

You'll notice on my firewall above there were some "inward"/"outward" cuts as the sheet metal entered the area around the steering wheel. I had to bend some tabs in my replacement panel to match those:

I matched this up to the firewall:

And welded up the top seam:

That's where it's resting right now while I make sure how to attach all the rest of it, which is probably just going to be beads all around, not having a spot welder.
I know I may need to take some lumps later on when I start putting the pieces together and realize things may not have holes or line up correctly, but I'm not apologizing, I think it came out pretty well considering. So this is for the benefit of anyone else out here that's got the same issues I've found with a late model beetle.

Other News: I have all my engine parts back from the machinist! So I'm about ready to start putting it back together. But a question for you engine builders out there:
When you build an engine, especially with a new cam and lifters, and it takes you a couple months to get it into a shape to be started up, do you need to break it all back down and lube the cam and lifters again before startup and breakin?

Thanks all!
If anyone's going to Wolfsgart this weekend I'll be there too!
Ian
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[scrivyscriv]

_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[NewTechnicIan]

Many thanks for the popcorn!
After a little more massaging and grinding on the thing, a picture of the bulkhead out front:

With the bulkhead all settled in, Carol, my girlfriend, finished up the welding on the passenger wheel well to the body and the heater channel.

I cut out a new piece of metal to replace some real pitted areas on the top of the wheel arch:

And Carol welded it in. We fixed up those holes but I don't have a good picture about it:

Moved over to the rotted fender mounting hole, Carol fit the piece and welded it up, there's some warping but otherwise it's good and strong! Gotta get a better picture, this is still in fitup:

While she was working on that, I fit the A pillar on the passenger side with a bottom piece and welded that in:

Feeling better about my front end. I have a few fender mount nuts to weld in and I'm about ready to leave it until the big front clip replacement!
Been feeling better about my welding too, the A pillar went in with very few problems. Carol's going to law school this week so I'll be dropping her off in NJ soon But on the bright side I'll probably end up pitching a tent outside Dustin's garage and staying up all hours working on the bug

I hope to get the metalwork done soon enough that I can get it sandblasted, putty'd and in primer by the winter. I got some bodywork done on my Corolla a couple weeks ago and the guy cut me a deal for cash under the table for weekend work. I brought up I had a bug that'll need painting soon and he said he'd let me in on a weekend and help me paint the thing! Of course, I'll need to either finish it before October or wait til December because he takes time off for hunting season

Other news: Wolfsgart was awesome, I picked up 2 heater boxes and both a Front and Rear bumper for the car for stupid cheap. I'm especially psyched about the rear bumper because I'll be able to line up my rear bumper mounts using it as a jig, which I hear can really screw people if you're not careful when you put the mounts in.

Been rebuilding my distributor and I'll have it back together soon, waiting on some rebuild parts from Fastenal and ACN. I posted some questions about the rebuild here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603707

Good stuff. Slow progress but it's been a good summer so I just have to be patient and have another beer instead of getting pissed
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

Welp, I had some time to tool around the basement over the weekend, and since I had gotten some shiny new parts from ACN and Fastenal, I finally got my distributor back together. I was using asiab3's distributor rebuild thread as the bible, it's hard to find more than a couple good ones!
Link:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=558307

From this

To this

Inside went from this

To this

Notes on that rebuild to expound on asiab3's experience:
That circlip that you take off to get at the innards of the distributor? It SUUUCKS to get off. I broke 3 dentist hooks getting at it and when it finally happened it was my girlfriend who got it and there was this crazy spark. We thought it had FLOWN across the room. Thank god Carol was there, I have apparently no coordination nor good enough eyes to work on these things
We never got the driven pin that holds the drive dog to come off. Moving that thing around was so though that I'm confident we didn't need to re-shim the assembly.
I didn't replace the condenser but there's a new one on the way from WW so I may if it gives me trouble at some point.

Other news:
I got a tap and die set and chased all the threads on my case, marking them with tape as I went:

Lined up my bolt-style camshaft to match the timing dots and lobes of my stock camshaft:

And discovered there was an issue with one of my new heads:

turns out the threads were exposed on one of the studs. John at ACN says I can probably just double nut the thing and turn it in the rest of the way. I was pissed over the weekend though.

Started setting up my bolt on rocker shafts over the weekend too. That got me confused. Clearances are supposed to be .003" for each rocker arm, but what I don't get is, the only shims available are .015", .030" and .060", which really only gives you increments in the .015" range, nowhere near sensitive enough to get to .003". I gotta look up more on that.

Hoping to get some good bodywork done over labor day weekend, we'll see.
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

BIG WEEKEND for the bug. Spent some of Saturday, all of Sunday, and some of Monday on my passenger rear wheel well area.

Old metal taken out and internals cleaned up and primered:

New rear quarter welded in:

New rear wheel well welded in:

A combo of the two with all the little pieces welded in:

All ground down and primered, most of the pinholes taken care of:

Even got my heater tube piece welded in, still need to do some more work there:

I realized my quarter was pretty warped after welding so I went at it with hammer and dolly, swearing to weld it differently on the other side so I have better access:

But I got it pretty good, I may do some more before putty but I was pretty sore from hammering already!

Good way to spend Labor Day. Few more weekends like that and I can actually start thinking about calling sandblasters and arranging a date for paint

I'm trying to set a date to finish the welding and grinding portion on the body. I'm going to shoot for October 19, since I'm going on a work trip til November 1 after that.

Things I still have to do:
details on the rear wheel well (~1 day)
drivers rear wheel well (~3 days)
Rear bumper mounts/removable apron (~3 days)
Front clip replacement (~2 days)
Fender nut repair and general grinding (~2 days)

I'll have to spend a bunch of weeknights on it because September's pretty busy but here's hoping!
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

Got a little more done a couple nights ago, welded in the rear piece of the package tray that butts up to the wheel well. Just needa grind it and away we go on the the other side!

_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

Passenger wheel well ground down, still need to hunt down some pinholes but it's looking good.

Got working on the other side this week too, it went pretty quickly.

For those of you who are doing both rear wheel wells like me, one thing I should have checked more carefully as I was putting together both sides was where the body mounts ended up on either side of the frame.
I had the package tray almost all the way welded back together and attached to the wheel well when I dropped the body onto the frame, only to discover that suddenly the body mounts were too wide to fit between the frame!

After about 1/2 hour of hammering, pulling on it with a ratchet strap and playing with a grinder, I got her to fit up finally and you can see that she's resting on the frame in my last couple pictures.

She's a little ugly down there but I'll clean her up before too long. Still have some details to attend to in the wheel well. All over the car actually...

I think I'm still on target for November 1st finishing up body work and getting ready for sandblasting. I should start talking to sandblasters shortly!
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.