Hot start technique...?

ccihon · Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:40 am Post subject:

Thanks Paul - seems like the options are the cutoff solenoid and a bypass, an electric pump setup, or a stock-style pump - which for me may be the most cost-effective and easiest...

This one is not a vw-logoed unit but is Brosol rebuildable style - does this look like the right item (1500 SP)? I think it will work, just not sure it has the cutoff/bypass feature?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1403401

airschooled · Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject:

Altema really hit the nail on the head with the technical reasons, but if you want a redneck fix, (which I never usually suggest,) park with the car facing slightly downhill. In Phoenix AZ my 1600dp would start like a champ, unless I let it sit for over 5 minutes on a hot day. Then it took a SLOW press of the accelerator pedal until it was floored, then a few seconds of cranking. The richness needs a fully open carb to get a good mixture. Parking nose up made the problem worse, so I park nose down, even a couple degrees, and the start time gets much better.
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Eric&Barb · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:09 am Post subject:

Had same problem with our 1960 bus, even with early stock rebuildable fuel pump. Added a second gasket between the float shut off valve and top of the carb solved it.

Check your float for any cracks and fuel in it. Even a totally perfect float can just be too heavy. Had flooding with an all stock 1963 SC even in cool weather, and only solved that by replacing the float with another.

Have been lots of reports of the new shut off valves not working properly......
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Altema · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:58 am Post subject:

NOVA Airhead · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject:

Just as a reminder you should also be sure that everything is working properly with your carb and that its properly jetted. Otherwise it will contribute to the problem.
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gears · Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject:

the FIRST thing I'd check is valve clearance. (The car can seem to be running just fine with tight valves, while a nightmare to restart when hot.) If normal valve clearance, I would then concur with fuel pump or vaporlock issues. Selenoids and whatnot are for a starter motor that's acting up .. but that doesn't sound like what the OP is describing.
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ccihon · Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject:

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that the valves are properly adjusted. I have ordered an original style pump that can be rebuilt and will verify pump pressure when I install.

I prefer the old style pump to the throw away one on there now. I think the fuel system likely worked well in a variety of temps as originally designed but years down the road lots has changed with aftermarket parts etc. I have mostly original components but not with the fuel system as it has an H30/31 and a Brazilian pump too.

ccihon · Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: Update...

Just installed an original-style pump as suggested. Still need to do some driving to see if this helps the issue, but I can say the old "chrome top" sealed throwaway pump was putting out 8 psi - there was only one gasket on there and none under the stand. Also, the pressure remained when the engine was shut off, and I assume would eventually dissipate by flooding the carb somewhat

I added several gaskets and even shortened the pushrod a bit. Lower pressure, plus the pressure drops immediately to zero when the car is switched off, so some hope that hot-weather driving will be improved.

Also took the opportunity to move the fuel filter out of the engine bay - plus this pump has the built-in cone filter also.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:04 am Post subject:

Good to hear you have it fixed.

You need a metal vacuum tube to the carb that either has a hump or full loop to keep fuel from getting to the vacuum advance of the distributor. Gas for that diaphragm is not good for it.

Also install hose clamps on both ends of both ends of the fresh air tubes to keep them from popping off and frying a head.

All of those holes in the shroud need to be plugged up to keep as much of the cooling air going to cool the engine.
Spark plug wire holder and the thermostatic flaps will help with that and other problems.
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Eric&Barb · Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:17 am Post subject:

Here is an image of the hump type:

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ccihon · Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:20 am Post subject:

Thanks for the tips. I do in fact have clamps on all the fresh air tubes but you can't quite see them in the photos. In addition to the clamps I had to add the couplers from the tubes to the heater box connection on the muffler.

PO had obviously done some quick work here and I have been fixing little things for a while. Easy to plug those shroud holes. I had never heard the humped steel vacuum line was important - makes sense, though.

As for the flaps - that's the big fix, as the car came from Florida and lacks the flaps or thermostat. Amazing how many original items are hacked away as unnecessary.

Altema · Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:10 am Post subject:

ghiaghia67 · Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:30 am Post subject:

I had the same problem with my 65 bug 1600 dual port. In the summer time it was hard to start after driving around in west texas. Read somewhere to take the fuel pump out and sand the out side of the intermediate flange. What would happen when the engine got hot it would put a bind on the rod going into the flange. They said after sanding it it should drop down into the engine. I did that and it fixed the problem.

Greezy Joe · Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject:

The Owner's Manual states that with temps over 86 degrees F and engine hot, to depress the pedal and operate the starter. This is nothing new. I have seen all kinds of Dumb stuff done to try and cure this, like tin foil and close pins all over the fuel lines Brick wall

I have to do this with all of my VW's with34 ict's and 44 idf's and the Weber Progressive and stock carbs I have run. This is just part of having a Carb, it ain't fuel injected. Folks coming in to the VW scene that are use to FI cars have a little bit of a Learning Curve to go thru.
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ccihon · Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject:

Not sure whether I should take offense - so I won't! I have owned a myriad of carburated vehicles - my first car st 16 was the only Rabbit from the factory with a solex - a '75 - I'm no spring chicken. I now have it starting easily by depressing the pedal fully when hot. If you look at what I had described earlier, it was far more difficult to start than as detailed in the manuals.

I was dealing with a situation where I had to deplete the battery while cranking for a long time, and once it fired up, lots of smoke and drama. This was, btw, with temps outside closer to 75 than 85.

Not sure what folks who "come into the scene" from FI do or don't do, but I hope they aren't putting up with a situation like I had.

Altema · Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:52 pm Post subject:

Greezy Joe · Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:06 am Post subject:

Basketcase · Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject:

maybe it's an Ohio thing, our Ghia does the same thing. Wink

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davidw99 · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:06 am Post subject:

Had the same problem. Having the valves, points and timing spot-on helped but did not solve the problem. Even tried to hunt down that elusive, mystical "vapor lock" problem. Ends up I had a bad coil. Did know until it finally went but I think it was sub-par out of the box. New coil and no problem starting when hot. It never was a vapor lock problem since the car would flood trying to start it. On a stock car I think vapor lock is an incorrectly over diagnosed cause. These cars would never have sold if vapor lock was as prevalent as one would think by reading this board. Just my opinion. I guess my point is that the cause of a hard hot start can be a myriad of different things. I never would have suspected the coil although I did see it mentioned by a poster in one topic on this forum as a possibility. Apparently the problem can surface when the coil gets hot. I'll let someone else explain why that is.
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