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Mike_CNYBuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2010 Posts: 628 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:10 am Post subject: Mike's 1st Beetle. 1970 Standard |
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Hi People!
I'm a dune buggy guy and have been for the last 4 years. I don't have any previous experience working on cars before that other than a maintenance type stuff on my passenger cars and what I learnded in high school shop class. I'm a computer guy by occupation but I am very mechanically inclined, though cars was never something I got into before I got my first buggy. You can see my 2nd buggy build in my signature, the first one was a Berrien 902 rail, but I never made a build thread for it, but I'll include a pic at the end for fun.
ANYWAY... I got a beetle. I found this one on craigslist locally. Originaly from New Mexico then Florida before the PO brought it to NY. There is almost no rust on this car. It's been repaired here and there over the years and has the usual owner repair jobs and modifications.
I am going to refurbish it. It will not be stock but it will be close to stock and I'm going to do my best NOT to make any modifications that can't be undone later should a new owner or myself decide to restore it in the future.
Here's some questions I have. Please remember that my only experience with a beetle is working on buggy's. I'm learning alot just looking at it. I'm like OH! that's why that's like that! and Crap!, there are all these extra parts in my way while I'm trying to get to some bolt.
1. I want to lower the front. I don't like the way the wheel opening in the fender doesn't follow the edge of the tire. Will 2 1/2" drop spindles get me there or should I go with an adjustable beam?
2. This will be a summer car. Here in upstate NY you drive your car in the late spring to fall and work on it over the winter. I have no need for the heater boxes and will just run an electric defroster for when the windshield gets foggy. I think I should keep all the tins around the engine (with the holes patched) but do I need to? will it make a difference? I'm going to run a type3 lower tin like I do on my buggy's due to the heater boxes being taken out.
3. With the heater boxes out, can I just get 'J' Tubes and use the stock exhaust?
4. Is there an old stye metal dash behind the vinyl cover?
Here's some pictures. I'm sure I'll have more questions.
Thanks for reading!
Note: The stickers were on the car when I bought it, I SWEAR!
My Buggy's
_________________ http://CNYBuggy.org - Central New York Dune Buggy Club
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Mike_CNYBuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2010 Posts: 628 Location: Syracuse, NY
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drs1023 Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2011 Posts: 1682 Location: Georgia, USA
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:44 am Post subject: |
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You have a nice Beetle. I wouldn't mess with the dash at all. It won't look like the older models with a shiny steel dash - you'll just end up needing a replacement pad if you mess with it.
Are you sure about the full 2 1/2" drop? It only needs an inch or so to be level. D'ya' think the 34 series carb and the 009 distributor are a good combination/ Most people don't like that combination for the flat spot during acceleration. Looks like you need an upgraded distributor (or go back stock). |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Hey, that looks pretty nice. My first was a 1970 back in 1972, still have it. Yesh, the engine lid has been repalced with a newer style, it's got alternator, centrifugal distributor, etc., so it's had some owner upgrades, no big deal.
Responses in CAPITALS
1. I want to lower the front. I don't like the way the wheel opening in the fender doesn't follow the edge of the tire. Will 2 1/2" drop spindles get me there or should I go with an adjustable beam?
DON'T KNOW
2. This will be a summer car. Here in upstate NY you drive your car in the late spring to fall and work on it over the winter. I have no need for the heater boxes and will just run an electric defroster for when the windshield gets foggy. I think I should keep all the tins around the engine (with the holes patched) but do I need to?
YES
3. With the heater boxes out, can I just get 'J' Tubes and use the stock exhaust?
YES
4. Is there an old style metal dash behind the vinyl cover?
YES _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Mike_CNYBuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2010 Posts: 628 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:58 am Post subject: |
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drs1023 wrote: |
You have a nice Beetle. I wouldn't mess with the dash at all. It won't look like the older models with a shiny steel dash - you'll just end up needing a replacement pad if you mess with it.
Are you sure about the full 2 1/2" drop? It only needs an inch or so to be level. D'ya' think the 34 series carb and the 009 distributor are a good combination/ Most people don't like that combination for the flat spot during acceleration. Looks like you need an upgraded distributor (or go back stock). |
No, I'm not sure about the drop, that's why I asked. It's almost like VW expected you to hide a body in there or something and preloaded the springs so it would ride properly with junk in the trunk.
I do want the front lower, but I don't want it slammed, I just want the wheel arch to match the tire. What do you recommend?
I ordered dual carbs for it, that carb has a bad reputation for being a problem, my friend had a 74 super and can't get the thing to idle once the choke opens. I haven't had an issue with the 009 on the buggy's but I use the electronic ignition module.
Thanks for the info about the dash. I'll leave well enough alone. _________________ http://CNYBuggy.org - Central New York Dune Buggy Club
Kristen's Buggy (UltaViolet) Build Thread
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75smith Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 2275 Location: NH
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: |
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patience good freind, some of us just browse while at work and try to choose the threads where we feel we can reply fast enough to either help out, or just keep our minds from exploding.
but looks like a good buy, there is a metal dash, but you do need to fill a couple small holes, and the knobs, vents, and glovebox door need fixing, as they will stick out a bit(and look odd)
either drop spindles or adjustable beam, both have cons and pros, major cons for spindles is the offset for tires sometimes needs to change(this might actually be just for supers, but something to keep in mind), and cons for beam is you need to look at different shocks, and ride quality might suffer, I might say beam though, just because I don't think you will need the full 2 1/2 inch drop
you need the tin, without it, it will over heat
don't use type 3 under tins, use the regular sled tins with industrial shields, and use the j-tubes-type 3 tins use a different cooling system, and while its still controversial I don't think they cool as well on the type 1 system _________________ My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12
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Mike_CNYBuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2010 Posts: 628 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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75smith wrote: |
don't use type 3 under tins, use the regular sled tins with industrial shields, and use the j-tubes-type 3 tins use a different cooling system, and while its still controversial I don't think they cool as well on the type 1 system |
I think I know what the sled tins are (under the engine between the cylinders above the push rod tubes) but what are the industrial shields?
Thanks,
Mike
Sorry if I'm impatient, I'm used to the FG/KC forum _________________ http://CNYBuggy.org - Central New York Dune Buggy Club
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75smith Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 2275 Location: NH
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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industrial tins
Mounted, behind exhaust tube, screwed to sled tins, then the force of the bend allows it to rest against the head-keeps exhaust heat away from underside of engine
_________________ My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12
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Mike_CNYBuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2010 Posts: 628 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hi - did you have a good look around the front there - looks like it took a whack. Aside from the bumper the fenders are off, and the apron or hood is off too - like out of line. Maybe it's an optical illusion or the pics are tricking me. Looks really clean car though. _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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zimmyjim Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2011 Posts: 224 Location: NW arkansas
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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i agree..its been hit in the front driver corner...most vdubs have been smashed up on one corner or another...just check it out for damage.
btw...ur shock lengths will also change if u lower it...more $.. |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Looks good!
If you want to keep it stock, keep the heating system that VW installed. You never know when you're going to need it. Besides, stock is stock!
The dash looks good as is. But what's that under the stick-shift knob?
I'd even stick with the stock carb--but with a Bosch 034 dizzy--so it will idle and run properly. Also, you'll be able to run the stock paper-element air cleaner with the thermostatically-controlled warm-up for the carb.
Have fun.
Tim |
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VW Man 53 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2011 Posts: 588 Location: Scotia, New York
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
The dash looks good as is. But what's that under the stick-shift knob?
Tim |
its just a shifter sleeve, its part of his aftermarket center console _________________ You CAN save them all. |
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75smith Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 2275 Location: NH
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Volks Wagen wrote: |
Hi - did you have a good look around the front there - looks like it took a whack. Aside from the bumper the fenders are off, and the apron or hood is off too - like out of line. Maybe it's an optical illusion or the pics are tricking me. Looks really clean car though. |
same thing with the rear-lid is off a little bit, but the front looks worse _________________ My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12
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Mike_CNYBuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2010 Posts: 628 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:57 am Post subject: |
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We had suspected that it had some front end damage before we bought it. It was in a garage when we looked at it and we notices some repairs in the spare tire area, but it appears it is worse than we thought. I'll take some better pictures, I was going to get some this morning but the lawn tractor was parked in front of it in the garage.
What should the decklid look like?
As far as the heater boxes, I don't trust them. I'm gonna have my kids in this car and I just can't take the chance. People say they are safe but pumping air around an exhaust pipe and into an enclosed space just sounds like a bad idea to me.
Edit: See, now I thought it was the passenger side that had damage. The bumper is crooked and bent. I'll remove the bumper and take some pics. There is defiantly something up. The hood is over the body/fender gap on the driver side, but not on the passenger side. the hood also rubs the cowl on that side when I open it, so it could just be on crooked. I hope it's not more than external. It seemed to drive straight down the road. _________________ http://CNYBuggy.org - Central New York Dune Buggy Club
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drs1023 Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2011 Posts: 1682 Location: Georgia, USA
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Many years (4+ decades) ago, I use to wonder about the same thing Mike,but either I am non-current on current events, or the incident rate of carbon monoxide poisoning in a VW is actually almost non-existent. I have heard of MANY more CO poisoning cases with conventional exhaust system on rear wheel drive vehicles than I have heard about VW's. Granted, my first car was a '59 Galaxie with dual exhausts chopped after the muffler and turned outside. I did smell oil smoke at times, so I know some CO was getting into the car. Of course, it was so drafty due to window seal deterioration, that I always seemed to have some incoming fresh air.
Yes, the possibility always exists, but I think the actual cases of CO poisoning in a VW due to poor heater exchange boxes is extremely low. There's a heckuva' lot of deterioration gotta' take place before exhaust gases make it through the thick casting and fins on the heat exchangers. |
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75smith Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 2275 Location: NH
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:04 am Post subject: |
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the aluminum surrounding the exhaust inside the interior of the heater box doesn't deteriorate like a steel exhaust pipe-but the possibility is still there, especially if the casting cracks(rare)
one thing you could do is put a CO detector under the rear seat, right near one of the heat intakes-that should detect any excess CO _________________ My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12
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Mike_CNYBuggy Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2010 Posts: 628 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:32 am Post subject: |
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I hear ya. Folks in the VW club keep saying the same thing. Being that it's a summer driver and none of the heating system is connected (cables shot, no ducts between boxes and car etc) I'm just going to remove them. I'll keep them around just in case, but they seem more trouble than they are worth for me. I'm used to not having heat in the buggy's, at least the beetle has a roof and windows.
I sent the PO an email to see if I can find out more about the damage. _________________ http://CNYBuggy.org - Central New York Dune Buggy Club
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8689 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:42 am Post subject: |
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My buggy is the first VW I've ever owned that didn't have working heat. I've never ever thought of the heater boxes as a danger. The heater system is so simple and easy to keep working, it doesn't make sense to me not to keep it working. And I really wish my buggy had heat, or at least defrosters ... it would come in handy on cool, humid days. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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Kiptere Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 419 Location: Houston
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:55 am Post subject: |
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70 was my favorite year. I've had 2 and my current VW is a 70. I can't stand that cheap plastic moon vent they added behind the rear windows on the 71. Tacky. Your rear deck lid isn't from a 70. 70 deck lids had 2 sets of vents not 4. |
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