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Chalklinedetail Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 311 Location: San Mateo, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: Wiring a 6v fog light |
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I know there are a few threads out there explaining how to wire a fog light, but I've read them and am still confused.
There's got to be a better way to wire a fog light without the use of a relay and separate switch, no?
I am not an electrical, but if you wanted it tied to the parking light function (small bulb in the headlight housing) couldn't you just simply tap off of that bulb connector at the nearest headlight bucket? Or the low beam wire at the headlight connector?
Anyone have a simple wiring diagram for this or any other 6v fog light installation method? _________________ My 63 build thread - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=520975&highlight= |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you can wire it to the driving lamps, but take it off where it comes out of the fuse block-just use a piggy back connector . If you want it separate you can take it from there also and run it to a switch and to the fog lamps. See the link; http://www.centralcoastvwclub.com/images/stories/dons64_2.jpg |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Simple and easy is how you bake a cake.... not connect circuits properly
A fog light (or lights) usually uses too many AMPS to simply just tap off the small UNFUSED park lamp circuit. It will overload the circuit and lamp switch.....
...spooooof...
Then if you tap off one (or both) of the low beam circuits.... a similar problem occurs. You have now added a high amp bulb or bulbs to a circuit designed and gauged for one . It usually ends up with dimmer headlamps... and or overloaded cirucuits.
Relays are designed to correct this..... plus you can fuse it seperatly..
They are simple devices that allow the use of a low (control) current to activate a high (load) current.
If you dont want a seperate switch, and dont mind having a fog light on each time you turn the park lamps on.... yes you can use the park lamp circuit, or low beam circuit as the CONTROL for a relay
So what are you really after here.... actual function or simply an accessory that lights up...?
The schematic below is about as simple as it gets using a 5 pole relay. A 4 pole relay is nearly the same, but its minus the 87A terminal.
_________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34022 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Back in my youth I tried the quick and easy approach, and ended up with LESS light out on the road, like VWnut says.
I took the time to wire it right, solder the connectors, adding a relay and fuses, and a new wire from the battery. It was a full day's work but it gave me brighter lights and a non-crispy Bug. |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: |
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You guys need to use the new type of bulbs that throw a lot of light and draw hardly any current. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Helfen wrote: |
You guys need to use the new type of bulbs that throw a lot of light and draw hardly any current. |
You're right there are more efficient bulbs these days... cant speak of whats available in 6 volt efficient bulbs ...or if they are even available for specific bulb applications, (such as a fog lamp), other than common replacements....... I'd still use a relay to keep the additional load off the switches and original circuits... as for other lighting methods, I personally dont like LED's... (which are not really bulbs). They take something away from the old car character IMO _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34022 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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HID retrofits? They have aiming issues (and blind oncoming drivers) if fitted to the old reflectors and lenses. Not legal on the highway, either (though we lack inspectoins in Cali). They save about half the current demand.
LEDs... I haven't tried them, but based on the high failure rate I see on traffic light retrofits, I have my doubts. Lots less power but even more difficulties trying to get a decent pattern.
It's not rocket science to add a relay and fuse and a few wires. |
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Chalklinedetail Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 311 Location: San Mateo, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Simple and easy is how you bake a cake.... not connect circuits properly
A fog light (or lights) usually uses too many AMPS to simply just tap off the small UNFUSED park lamp circuit. It will overload the circuit and lamp switch.....
...spooooof...
Then if you tap off one (or both) of the low beam circuits.... a similar problem occurs. You have now added a high amp bulb or bulbs to a circuit designed and gauged for one . It usually ends up with dimmer headlamps... and or overloaded cirucuits.
Relays are designed to correct this..... plus you can fuse it seperatly..
They are simple devices that allow the use of a low (control) current to activate a high (load) current.
If you dont want a seperate switch, and dont mind having a fog light on each time you turn the park lamps on.... yes you can use the park lamp circuit, or low beam circuit as the CONTROL for a relay
So what are you really after here.... actual function or simply an accessory that lights up...?
The schematic below is about as simple as it gets using a 5 pole relay. A 4 pole relay is nearly the same, but its minus the 87A terminal.
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Ok, you got me
I'd like to run a switch and a relay. Seems to be the smartest thing to do. Questions:
1. Where do I get a relay? What's the spec?
2. What specific fuse do I run?
3. What wire do I run? Amp?
4. What does that circuit look like?
Do you accept the challenge?! _________________ My 63 build thread - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=520975&highlight= |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Hard to give specs when you dont give any for your lamp.... but that can be worked around..
Exact specs would really depend on how many Amps the fog light (or lights)
uses..??
If the lamp uses 20 amps or less and if you plan to use a seperate switch... a relay may not even be needed....
Then its a simple... connect and route a fused voltage circuit to an on/off switch of your choice and mounting, route a load circuit to the lamp...The lamp will either have a seperate grounding wire, or grounds through the base.. Flip switch and enjoy...
16 or 14 gauge wire, a 20 amp fuse mounted close to the voltage supply and a 20 amp rated switch, should do the trick..
Hopefully you found the topic below when you searched...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535278 _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:19 am Post subject: |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Hard to give specs when you dont give any for your lamp.... but that can be worked around..
Exact specs would really depend on how many Amps the fog light (or lights)
uses..??
If the lamp uses 20 amps or less and if you plan to use a seperate switch... a relay may not even be needed....
Then its a simple... connect and route a fused voltage circuit to an on/off switch of your choice and mounting, route a load circuit to the lamp...The lamp will either have a seperate grounding wire, or grounds through the base.. Flip switch and enjoy...
16 or 14 gauge wire, a 20 amp fuse mounted close to the voltage supply and a 20 amp rated switch, should do the trick..
Hopefully you found the topic below when you searched...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535278 |
Turning on my fog lamps draw less than three amps and is nothing to what the headlamps do when turned on.....those really make the amp gauge move! |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Helfen wrote: |
Turning on my fog lamps draw less than three amps and is nothing to what the headlamps do when turned on.....those really make the amp gauge move! |
Well..... in your case.. you KNOW how many AMPs your fog lamps use...
Not all fog lamps (lamps in general) are created equal... The average ole' fog lamp bulb will use 3-5 amps. If you use 2 that current demand doubles. Use halogen, generic super watt, KC Hilites, or some other type of aircraft landing lamps, and the amperage goes way up... Its always best to know what you have, and what it demands for amp consumption before circuits are created....
Im just trying to give good general average information that can be used by anyone that drops by this post ....HOPEFULLY after searching... _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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kmichael Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2007 Posts: 89 Location: Marin
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:27 am Post subject: |
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I did this a few years ago. Yes, use a relay for all the reasons mentioned. Mine is in a 12v car...I believe I used 12g wire. I didn't want those heavy chrome mounting brackets so I made my own using stock VW bumper supports. I wanted a dedicated switch so I bent a piece of flat bar put a hole to mount it with same screw used by steering collar and put simple switch in it. I'm sure I put a inline fuse in. Took some time, but worth it.
_________________ "The star of the beetle is still shining with undiminished brightness and you see for yourselves every day what vitality there is hidden in this car..."HeinzNordhoff |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34022 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm... 3 amps, 6 volts... this is an 18 watt lamp. More like brake or turn signal bulb. Hardly worth the effort. Typical H3 foglamps are 55 watts each.
A pair of 55W lamps is 110W, or about 20A for a 6V car. Definitely relay- and fuse-worthy! |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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KTPhil wrote: |
Hmmm... 3 amps, 6 volts... this is an 18 watt lamp. More like brake or turn signal bulb. Hardly worth the effort. Typical H3 foglamps are 55 watts each.
A pair of 55W lamps is 110W, or about 20A for a 6V car. Definitely relay- and fuse-worthy! |
Yeah...^ Thats my exact thought as well.
15-20 amps is the max Id want go on seperate switch... and even thats a stretch IMO. Most cheapo switches are only rated at 15amps...
I agree a relay is best, but not always needed... It all depends on the amps..
The amp answer lies with the post starter....
In the mean time.... here is a modifed version of a popular basic fog lamp diagram using a relay..
_________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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kmichael Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2007 Posts: 89 Location: Marin
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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this last diagram is the one I used...make sure all circuits are fuse protected as in diagram... I use automotive wire from O'Reilly's the covering on the wire seems tougher than the cheap radio shack stuff...I got the relay and switch at radio shack. Make sure wire size is adequate for amps and distance http://www.amplepower.com/primer/gauge/ use soldered connections or good quality crimped connectors don't do the twist & tape crap. Neatly done secure wiring is best. Run wires to minimize chances it will later get accidentally cut or severed.
Kim _________________ "The star of the beetle is still shining with undiminished brightness and you see for yourselves every day what vitality there is hidden in this car..."HeinzNordhoff |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Helfen wrote: |
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Hard to give specs when you dont give any for your lamp.... but that can be worked around..
Exact specs would really depend on how many Amps the fog light (or lights)
uses..??
If the lamp uses 20 amps or less and if you plan to use a seperate switch... a relay may not even be needed....
Then its a simple... connect and route a fused voltage circuit to an on/off switch of your choice and mounting, route a load circuit to the lamp...The lamp will either have a seperate grounding wire, or grounds through the base.. Flip switch and enjoy...
16 or 14 gauge wire, a 20 amp fuse mounted close to the voltage supply and a 20 amp rated switch, should do the trick..
Hopefully you found the topic below when you searched...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535278 |
Turning on my fog lamps draw less than three amps and is nothing to what the headlamps do when turned on.....those really make the amp gauge move! |
They are sure bright at less than three amps---I'm guessing here because the needle barely moves on my amp gauge. Definitely not like when the headlamps are turned on. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34022 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Depends on how your ammeter and foglamps are wired. Since neither came with the car, a PO might have been "creative" and not wired it to include ALL current consumption, especially any accesories added later.
A 3W bulb will be cosmetic at best, unless it's some new LED type. |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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KTPhil wrote: |
Depends on how your ammeter and foglamps are wired. Since neither came with the car, a PO might have been "creative" and not wired it to include ALL current consumption, especially any accesories added later.
A 3W bulb will be cosmetic at best, unless it's some new LED type. |
Yes, you guessed it LED and I bought the car from the original owner via his neighbor thirty nine years ago and the only thing he did to the car was put a KD engine in it in 1965. A painful lesson to people who don't know driving and maintenance procedures for air cooled VW's. |
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panicman Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011 Posts: 2290 Location: Canby, OR
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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I almost think this post should be a sticky. I have wondered about all of this, too. _________________ Plate of shrimp |
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Chalklinedetail Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 311 Location: San Mateo, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
Hmmm... 3 amps, 6 volts... this is an 18 watt lamp. More like brake or turn signal bulb. Hardly worth the effort. Typical H3 foglamps are 55 watts each.
A pair of 55W lamps is 110W, or about 20A for a 6V car. Definitely relay- and fuse-worthy! |
Yeah...^ Thats my exact thought as well.
15-20 amps is the max Id want go on seperate switch... and even thats a stretch IMO. Most cheapo switches are only rated at 15amps...
I agree a relay is best, but not always needed... It all depends on the amps..
The amp answer lies with the post starter....
In the mean time.... here is a modifed version of a popular basic fog lamp diagram using a relay..
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Well, based on Volkswagnut's easy to read diagrams I think I've been able to acquire what I need to get the light to light up Here's the list of what I've picked up and the specs. I hope Volkswagnut is out there and can take a peek at my specs to make sure I didn't get anything that will explode
1. Relay - Sumeng, JD1912, 12V, 40A (It said it would work with both 6v and 12v)
2. Inline Fuse Holder - 12/24VDC Mini Blade, 30A
3. Mini Blade Fuses - 32VDC, 30A
4. Inline Fuse Holder - 250VAC, 10A, holds 1 1/4" x 1/4" fuses
5. 1 1/4" x 1/4" fuses - 250V, 5A
6. Switch - DPDT Heavy Duty, 3A @ 125VAC, 1.5A @ 250VAC
_________________ My 63 build thread - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=520975&highlight= |
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