Daily Crusin 1641cc Cam Choice(32/36 Dfav Weber)

[Haneline USA]

Hey guys,

Looking for some advice about which cam will fit my needs. Im building a 1641cc for a daily driver to school ( 5 days a week, around 60 miles a day. Located out in the country, not a big city with a red light every block) I want a good cam with low/mid power that is good for cruising, not looking to go +100MPH. Just want some power If i feel nutty or want to make a pass.

I basically got most of my parts for my build. Which included..

- IAP CW 69mm Crank
-12.5 Lb Flywheel 8 dowell
- AA 87mm P&C set
-Cbperformance forged 5.400 Rod Set
-(Stock Size) SS Valves
-High Rev Single Valve springs
-CM Keepers and Retainers
-31mm Big Foot Lifters (Not order yet)
-009 Electronic Dist

+ Misc parts

I will be using a 32/36 DFAV Double Barrel Weber Carb w/ old school scat manifold.

Been looking at the w100, a few of CB Eagle Street and Bracket Cams.

I would perfer a cam with long life on the valve train.

I can get a good deal on a slightly slightly used W110. (Barely no wear marks with no run out)

But thinking thats to much for my carb and set up??

Any info and advice would be much appericated.


Thanks

[Quokka42]

The W110 is about the limit for a single carb, you should be able to tune most of the lumpiness out if you have a good exhaust. The need for long valve life kills the rather excellent Web Cam 111, but if you get something with a 50 thou duration in the 230-240 range you should be happy.

Personally, I think the W100 is one of the best Engle ever produced, but the taste of a top end leads most to want a bit more...
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[66brm]

Yeah don't run the W110 with a single carb, I tried for ages to get it right, never did, but I did fit a set of dual 40idfs and it ran sweet, its also worth looking at some of the webcam shafts, they run nice and quiet.

Another to consider is the CB cheater cam.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Eagle-Type-1-Camshaft-Cheater-Cam-Grind-CB2280-p/cb2280.htm

Don't worry about the bigfoot lifters, you won't need them
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Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval

[Haneline USA]

Thanks for the reply Quokka42

The only reason I was considering the W110 is because I can get it w/ the gear for $60 and its flawless.

Also the w100 top end is why im kinda sketchy about it.


I have a 1972 standard beetle, I think it has the 3.88 gear.

Im kinda interesting in the Eagle 2237 Cam.

Lift w/ 1:1 : 463"

Lift @ cam : 421

Dur: 278

Dur(.050): 244

But if the w100 is good reliable cam with long service life, that will tune well with the 32/36 Weber Dfav and stock heads slightly clean up ports I may just take that deal and save me ~$40

But I want a quick/fun/reliable combo and will spare the extra flow for a better cam for my conditions.

Any more advice and info appreciated

Thanks

[Haneline USA]

I checked out some of the webcam, after all they have been doing vw cams for awhile, so they may be as good as people say.

Im digging the 118 WebCam!

http://www.webcamshafts.com/pages/automobile/volkswagen/install_data/tc_000670_002539.html

Has anyone ran 118 with a single carb with any success? (32/36 Weber Dfav)

This seems like a nice cam, really would like some input on it.

Thanks for the replys guys

[ralf]

interesting

cam choices look good,


however , keep in mind that alot tend to overcam their engines
and with such small displacement thats easier to do often times

dfev carb, thats a progressive right?
i think [email protected] mentioned something about
those at WOT its equivalent is alot bigger carb

and so.. that should atleast let us know.. "top end" breathing should be alright

-
another thing to look at is the given manifold and intake tract
lifting alot at the valve would tend to mean less benefit and just more valvetrain stress, not saying higher lift is useless but higher lift = more demand on the induction side

your valve size too,
these heads when ported well should flow very decent and the displacement you have is no where near close to maxing out the head's potential,

--
example is , to look at the limited carburetion class/type of racing

none of them have gone beyond .470 lift.. im sure there was a reason
be it longevity or actual benefits, eithert way i dont think those are 2 things ud wish to ignore for a daily driver??

two cams in mind that are in that class racing are
web218/119
FAT 411 (fat performance) or was it 412
SLR pkv280
(notice the intake valve lift on those, a trend is there, and the duration too)
so if you think about it,the cheater cam or even the web119 should be good enough for the 1641

-atleast get the stock valved heads ported nicely with a nice 3 angle valvejob
have the porter dress the SS valves nicely, back cut on the intake etc

get a decent merged header
and focus on the tuning of the carb

that should get you going real nice and reliable ,

to add to the confusion

a vz14 would prolly make for a snappy torquey 1641
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Flow Through a Curved Conduit

porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk

[ralf]

[Quokka42]

VZ series are extremely hard on the valve train.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[ralf]

[veedubcrazy]

I have an E100 in my 1641 for my '67. Does a fine job. Th engine is all stock except for the cam. Adds a bit more zip but falls off on the top-end. But I am okay with that. Consider the E100.
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1967 Deluxe Sedan

[[email protected]]

with any center mount 2bbl, the restriction is not the carb it's the end castings.
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[[email protected]]

[Alstrup]

[quote="[email protected]" I am working on designing a new performance longblock that works with a stock carb for daily driven beetles.[/quote]

About time! We have been doing that for a long time by now
Only I would recommend you to look into other options too, for instance on camshafts.

For the 1641 I would recommend the CB 2280 or the 2232 for atad more upper end. Especially the 2280 is superior when it comes to fuel efficiency. The new 2228 is even better, but can be a handfull to get right with the jetting.

T

[veedubcrazy]

I dont know. I broke 38mpg the other day in my '67 with a 1641. And that was just going steady at 60mph.
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1967 Deluxe Sedan

[Dan Ruddock]

The w100 or the web 119. The 118 is too much as is a w110 unless you go with dual duals. Dan

[Haneline USA]

So I been brainstorming the last couple of days and have decided to pick either the WEB 119 or CB 2236.

WEB 119
http://www.webcamshafts.com/pages/automobile/volkswagen/install_data/tc_000670_002579.html

.422 (Lift) 276 (Dur) 276 ([email protected]) 240

CB 2238
http://www.cbperformance.com/searchresults.asp?cat=187

.351 (Lift) 274 (DUR) ([email protected]) 236



Just have not made up my mind yet, also still taking opinions on what cam to use. These are just the 2 that looking over seems fit for a daily cruiser.


****Also what Cam LIfters should I use if I get a WEB?


Thanks

[[email protected]]

[Alstrup]

Maybe this should be in another thread instead of hijacking this one.
I just want to note is that I know what youre saying. What you experience is increased torque in the driving rpms. IF your "stock" heads really flow 30% better than stock, you will get - about - the same usable rpm as a 1600 stock engine, though it will lay off sooner. An engine like that will typically pull about 63-65 hp Din. @ 38-3900 rpm with about 130 to 135 Nm peaking at approx 2800 rpm. - That´s about what a built 1600 will do with ease. you just spend your money different.
One of the reason that you didnt feel that much improvement with the W100 cam over stock is that eventhough many people recommend it for such engines, it is NOT optimum. You can get much better results. That´s why I recommended you to look into other cam solutions. II guess it is partly because the w series is so well known, that people sort of run home to mama and choose something they have heard about before.

One thing is to make a larger than stock displament run with a stock carb, another is to actually make some extra usable power without stiffling the upper end rpms. But hey, that´s half the fun.

To let you have something to shoot for, we pull 95 hp @ 4400 rpm and 160 Nm torque peaking at 4000 rpm with our 1914S. The 1914T set up pulls 85 hp @ 3800 rpm and 165 Nm peak at 2600 rpm. The last one is actually relativly easy to build, but its kinda boring. - best suited for heavy vehicles. The first one is fun, and doesnt lay off until about 4800 rpm.

Happy wrenching.

T

[Quokka42]

Nothing wrong with my mama! Some people, like me, think the Engle and Scat profiles are a bit dated, and there are much better options out there these days. But if someone is set on using Engle and have this engine size and a progressive, the W100 is the best choice in my opinion.

I think the cams he is looking at now are actually much better choices for what he wants though. I haven't used the CB cams but some of them look good and I have heard good things about them.

There is another thread about lifters with Web, but they work fine with Scat (I actually used the SLR) which means they have the correct profile and material to work with most quality lifters - just some are better than others.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.