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Hustlers67 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2011 Posts: 263 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Hey, just read this thread. It sounds appealing and daunting at the same time.
I'm building a 2187cc, with dual drla 40 dellortos, I was looking at getting the Mallory unilite with vac advance, pairing it with the hyfire 6AL2.. But I thought I better figure out if this black box would be a better option. I have a number of half decent mechanical advance dizzy's I could lock out to run with the black box. It would save me a few bucks.. I'm just a bit worried about the issues where the black box needs manifold vacuum. Will my dellorto 40's (old Alfa units) present a problem here? |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Hustler... you'll just need to install a fitting on your intake manifold if there aren't a few there already.
The BB seems to do what it says on the tin... it's just the instructions are very weak.
Getting rid of the mechanical advance and the vacuum advance can was one of the main reasons I bought the thing. |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Porsche60 wrote: |
bugeyesprite wrote: |
"Caution:
you should have max MAP margin, more than your actual boost.
if boost exceeds the right side of the timing table,
it may read the left side of the table!"
I don't know what this means but I thank you for your helpfulness. |
if your max boost is 10 psi (100+40kpa), you should set the MAP row up to 150-160kpa.
MAP sometimes jumps a little. |
Ahh. So if I set it too low and it overshoots, it'll start at the bottom. Good to know. Thanks! |
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Hustlers67 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2011 Posts: 263 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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So, unlike the cdi ignition systems that are more about controlling spark, the black box works to control the advance timing. They can then work together?
Are many people successfully running a 6AL style cdi box with the black box?
Anyone using a black box with a Mallory unilite?
Last edited by Hustlers67 on Tue May 19, 2015 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have a regular coil and Accuspark points replacement module. The Black Box controls when it sparks and gives me boost retard. |
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Porsche60 Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2007 Posts: 210 Location: Far East
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hustlers67 wrote: |
So, unlike the cdi ignition systems that are more about controlling spark, the black box works to control the advance timing. They can then work together?
Are many people successfully running a 6AL style cdi box with the black box?
Anyone using a black box with a Mallory unilite? |
it should work with any cdi box.
i'll hook up winterburn cdi in near future. |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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So I hooked this thing up and tried it with the generic "turbo" spark map and it started and ran reasonably well. I set up the distributor with a timing light following the "instructions" as best I could. Then I fiddled with the idle screw to get the idle back to a normal rpm.
So... I went for a drive and It ran quite well. Now I have to "optimize" my ignition map for my engine. I have so far limited myself to getting the engine to idle properly and start without kicking the starter drive out the front of the motor. 15 degrees cranking timing didn't seem to agree with my little engine. I set that to 5 degrees and set the 2 boxes it idled in to 20 degrees which stopped the starter bucking and smoothed things out quite nicely. (I haven't driven the car since I made this change)
The car was bogging on tip in but pulled well enough and seemed to run about the same as before on light load etc. I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the vacuum advance part of this. I also have 20 degrees of idle timing followed by 15 degrees just a few rpm higher up. This looks odd to me so I suspect I will need to change that.
I also think the car should be in the 40 degrees area at light load on the highway (simulating full vacuum advance) I also thought it might be wise to solicit the opinion of the masses and see what the collective knowledge might poop out. In other words... what do I do now?
(I love how I'm setting MAP on a map... nothing to confuse anyone there...
[/img] |
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Porsche60 Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2007 Posts: 210 Location: Far East
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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400rpm row would be crank timing.
usually, you should set all the 400rpm cells to 5 degrees.
i think it won't see 45kpa while cranking.
yes, you can advance light load area. |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Well that makes sense porsche60. I just modified a few cells at the start of the generic one supplied by CB. They seem to think it should have all sorts of different setting in the 400 rpm row. |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a map I just tried with more advance at maximum boost. I was able add advance at higher revs even with my water/meth injection turned off.
[/img] |
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rubenski Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014 Posts: 100 Location: belgium
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:06 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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hi,
I got a black box on my 64 bug with a prepped 1641cc dual dell's 36
I make 106.7 hp and 151 Nm torque on the dyno.
We tuned the black box while on the dyno and it went pretty well
Exept, cold starts are very difficult. have to crank quite a while till it starts.
does anyone have the download for the program on the pc? I only have a notebook without a cd driver.
if I have it I can show my spark table and see what you guys think.
greetz from Belgium! |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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I think you'll need to contact CB for a download. I had the same issue... no cd drive.
I would be very interested to see your map and swap notes. |
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rubenski Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014 Posts: 100 Location: belgium
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:25 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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I allready emailed pat @cb but no reply yet.
Ive read that it can take up to a week to be replied. So im waiting till next tuesday.
But maybe someone @ the samba could help me out.
Ruben |
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rubenski Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014 Posts: 100 Location: belgium
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:27 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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I allready emailed pat @cb but no reply yet.
Ive read that it can take up to a week to be replied. So im waiting till next tuesday.
But maybe someone @ the samba could help me out.
Ruben |
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bugeyesprite Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 16 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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PM me your email and I'll send you the folder.
I found CB got back to me very quickly... even on the weekend. |
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rubenski Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014 Posts: 100 Location: belgium
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:26 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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I allready got the link from someone i know.
Maybe tommorow i can connect the bb and take a screenshot.
Thanks tailor ! |
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rubenski Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014 Posts: 100 Location: belgium
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:13 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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I now got the program on my laptop but the serial cable is at my engine builder's shop.
He will send me the map via email.
But i looked a bit arround in the engine bay When it didnt want to start an hour ago.
Can someone verrify me if the rotorshaft must be completely withouth play? Mine is locked out with the suplied washer but i can still move it a bit. Lets say a bit over 1mm at the longest side of the rotor.
Thx |
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rubenski Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014 Posts: 100 Location: belgium
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:14 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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I now got the program on my laptop but the serial cable is at my engine builder's shop.
He will send me the map via email.
But i looked a bit arround in the engine bay When it didnt want to start an hour ago.
Can someone verrify me if the rotorshaft must be completely withouth play? Mine is locked out with the suplied washer but i can still move it a bit. Lets say a bit over 1mm at the longest side of the rotor.
Thx |
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Porsche60 Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2007 Posts: 210 Location: Far East
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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rubenski wrote: |
Can someone verrify me if the rotorshaft must be completely withouth play? Mine is locked out with the suplied washer but i can still move it a bit. Lets say a bit over 1mm at the longest side of the rotor.
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I think that play doesn't matter. |
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rubenski Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014 Posts: 100 Location: belgium
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: Re: cb performance black box |
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Yeah, just heard my builder, says its just the play on the shaft and not the rotor being loose.
Just cant get it to start...
Maybe the 400 and 800 rpms need more tuning. Maybe set it on 25º? |
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