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Dual Empi HPMX44's... one barrel way too low on the sync
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msimoni
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Dual Empi HPMX44's... one barrel way too low on the sync Reply with quote

Hi guys... my first post here...
I've got a sand rail with a brand new 2.150CC air cooled VW engine, engle W110, 44mm intake and 35mm exaust valves, flame thrower ignition and a new set of dual EMPI HPMX44's. (still haven been broken out... about 50miles on it at most)

Here is what I am finding when trying to tune those carbs:
When tuning into sync the barrels, Cylinders 4, 2 and 3 I can get them to flow about the same on the sync tool (I got them to 5, or all at 6, or 7 (can't remember if it is CFM, or CM3 of air/vacuum rate now... whatever on my sync tool)... the problem is, on cylinder 1 barrel of the HPMX I never get past 2,5 or 3 on the sync tool, even with all other barrels running at the same higher rate (let's say between 5 or 7), the cylinder number 1 barrel always runs much lower vacuum than the other 3 cylinders... way too low compared to the other cylinders.

What can I do to remedy this? could it be the throttle miss set from the factory on that barrel?
Intake valve too tight?

Even though it show a lot lower vacuum on the sync, the idle screw best setting is about the same (1,1/2 turn out) just like the other 3 cylinders....

Any ideas? Help? Comments?

Thanks a lot!
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

make sure you have gaskets between all parts, carb top, throttell bracket,aircleaner base, and yes the stacks too. and then see what you get. and make sure the intakes are tight, and the crabs are tight on the intakes too. be sure there isant any old gasket left on the head, intake, or any other place that can leave a leek.also if it has sneezzed it may of blown a chunk of gadget out somewhere. or if the intakes have been ported a bit to far or dont it flat. do your home work&figure it out.

when I have to equalize the carbs I like to bring the high ones down, not the low ones up, adjust with the bypass screws.
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msimoni
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
make sure you have gaskets between all parts, carb top, throttell bracket,aircleaner base, and yes the stacks too. and then see what you get. and make sure the intakes are tight, and the crabs are tight on the intakes too. be sure there isant any old gasket left on the head, intake, or any other place that can leave a leek.also if it has sneezzed it may of blown a chunk of gadget out somewhere. or if the intakes have been ported a bit to far or dont it flat. do your home work&figure it out.

when I have to equalize the carbs I like to bring the high ones down, not the low ones up, adjust with the bypass screws.


All gaskets have been checked, screws properly torqued, everything is brand new...
I tried to lower the other three barrels on the by-pass valves, they won't come down to the number 1 cylinder at all... they will sure come down a bit but not that much difference...
Thanks for the tips and advice!
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By Colella sand rail A.K.A.: "Electric Chair" - VW 2.150cc, dual EMPI HPMX44's, Engle W110, 44mm intake/35mm exaust dual spring valves, fully modded and ported heads, Pertonix Flame Thrower Distributor and Digital Ignition, Flamethrower Epoxi filled Coil, Flamethrower 8.8mm spar plug cables, Dual UMP air boxes 3"intake, Raised dual K&N 3"air filters, Full Rancho RS9000XL shocks, etc.
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msimoni
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any ideas?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swap the carbs and see if the problem stays with the cylinder or the carb barrel. Don't assume it's a carb issue, the cylinder may not be moving any air due to a mechanical issue.
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First steps. Check compression and leakdown.
Make sure all 4 cyls are same/no issues mechanical.

Then if you have no vacuum leaks, you use the idle air bypass screws to even out the sync.
Thats why weber put them on there.

first unlock all 4 8mm nuts, make sure all 4 idle air bypass screws are SHUT/turned all the way in.
Then set the carbs. Synch and fuel screws.
Then when done if one is low you can add some air and it will idle more smoothly.

That is exactly the point of those screws. Cant get the throttle plates PERFECT so you use what they gave you to get to perfection. Smile
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what john said is true and will eliminate everything else if it is the carbs, if it isant the carbs you know there good. if it,s the carbs and you do have all the gaskets(I havent seen any under the stacks but on my car) then lower & raise to get them even or figure out whats wrong,& where the air is bypassing the stack. Ive seen warped stacks that leek like hell,I dont know why they dont have gaskets under them in the first place ( ahrd plastic spacer with ombeded "O" rings on both sides would be awassom!!(get on it john!!)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to thank all of those who took their time and patience to try and help me with my carb sync issues.
I will try all of your tips and let you guys know how it goes, perhaps it will help others also.

Thanks all!!
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By Colella sand rail A.K.A.: "Electric Chair" - VW 2.150cc, dual EMPI HPMX44's, Engle W110, 44mm intake/35mm exaust dual spring valves, fully modded and ported heads, Pertonix Flame Thrower Distributor and Digital Ignition, Flamethrower Epoxi filled Coil, Flamethrower 8.8mm spar plug cables, Dual UMP air boxes 3"intake, Raised dual K&N 3"air filters, Full Rancho RS9000XL shocks, etc.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

might also be a bent throttell shaft., but I think just an air leek somewhere.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you inspected them, cleaned them and set the floats. I found a problem with mine.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548889&highlight=
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: followed you goys tips... and made it work.
All other three cylinders bypass air screws fully closed, and cylinder number 1 opened up to where it met all other cylinders air flow on the sync tool.

I'm finding it a little harsh on slow accelerations (kind of stumbles), but fine at wide open throttle. Any ideas? Acceleration pumps? Should I delay the pumps a bit?
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By Colella sand rail A.K.A.: "Electric Chair" - VW 2.150cc, dual EMPI HPMX44's, Engle W110, 44mm intake/35mm exaust dual spring valves, fully modded and ported heads, Pertonix Flame Thrower Distributor and Digital Ignition, Flamethrower Epoxi filled Coil, Flamethrower 8.8mm spar plug cables, Dual UMP air boxes 3"intake, Raised dual K&N 3"air filters, Full Rancho RS9000XL shocks, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

however you still don't know if you have a carb issue, or if that one cylinder is not sucking air like it should.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah did you do the tests i suggested first?

Supposed to verify if engine is 100% before you resort to air bypass adjusting.

the bypasses were designed to make up for slight variations in throttle bore or bent shafts etc.

Of course on a perfect engine that has no issues.

You may have the hesitation cause you have tight valves. could be many things.

1 step at a time and you will find it
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Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adjusted all valves at 0,35... compressions are like new about 140... 150psi on all cylinders (engine has barely run).

Now it only feels a little too rich when I step slowly on the gas, feels like it is a little choked, faulting, but if I do a quick WOT it sure kicks...

It is idling fine too.
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By Colella sand rail A.K.A.: "Electric Chair" - VW 2.150cc, dual EMPI HPMX44's, Engle W110, 44mm intake/35mm exaust dual spring valves, fully modded and ported heads, Pertonix Flame Thrower Distributor and Digital Ignition, Flamethrower Epoxi filled Coil, Flamethrower 8.8mm spar plug cables, Dual UMP air boxes 3"intake, Raised dual K&N 3"air filters, Full Rancho RS9000XL shocks, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

falling on its face is almost always too lean, or a big lean spot.

Too rich will always accelerate smooth but not as snappy. Has to be super flooding rich to affect driveability. Which is more rare than super lean.

What idle jets and main stack are in those carbs?

Also what is base timing and total advance at 3500 rpm?


.
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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson


Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Advance is 32 degrees at 3000RPM. My idle jets are 55... main is 155 and air is 200. Basically all stock from stock.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more question: which way to get my acceleration pump rich and lean? (screw in/out)....

Thanks guys, sorry for the many questions...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah you can screw the nut IN and get a bigger/longer shot.

You can also buy and replace the accel nozzles with ones with larger orifice, but ive never seen it needed. Usually can tune out any issues with jet sizing.
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Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msimoni wrote:
Adjusted all valves at 0,35...


0.35mm is a lot of valve lash. Aluminum pushrods are normally 0.15mm (0.006 inches). Is there a reason?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhoefer wrote:
msimoni wrote:
Adjusted all valves at 0,35...


0.35mm is a lot of valve lash. Aluminum pushrods are normally 0.15mm (0.006 inches). Is there a reason?


Mine are aluminum pushrods, but with double springs... should I lower the lash to 0.25mm or less?
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By Colella sand rail A.K.A.: "Electric Chair" - VW 2.150cc, dual EMPI HPMX44's, Engle W110, 44mm intake/35mm exaust dual spring valves, fully modded and ported heads, Pertonix Flame Thrower Distributor and Digital Ignition, Flamethrower Epoxi filled Coil, Flamethrower 8.8mm spar plug cables, Dual UMP air boxes 3"intake, Raised dual K&N 3"air filters, Full Rancho RS9000XL shocks, etc.
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