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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3889 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:25 am Post subject: |
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The 30/31 carb has an idle mixture screw and an idle bypass screw, but they couldn't be said to be "by the choke". Turning either one of them
out should increase rpm's, unless the mixture screw, which is nearer
the rear, is grossly misadjusted. The tuning procedure for that carb is
similar to that for the Solex carb it is meant to replace, and can be found in your service manual. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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30/31's have 2 idle jets on the RH side near the choke heater, you shouldn't be turning them they need to be screwed in all the way and snug. Don't use wrench on them even though they have a hex, a screwdriver is just fine and overtorqing them will damage the bore and cause all sorts of idle issues. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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VolkzBitz Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Washington State USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Make sure the 2 jets are the correct way around. The one pointing slightly rearward is the IDLE jet, the other at 90 degrees is the POWER jet. The IDLE jet is .65 and the power jet .50. Alternatively the IDLE jet (.65) could be blocked, remove it and blow through it. _________________ http://volkzbitz.com
Quality VW Solex carburetor restoration
[email protected]
Der Vergaser Meister |
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barry cox Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2011 Posts: 74 Location: SEMMES, ALABAMA
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Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: 30/31 Carburetor |
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Thanks guys, I will check. |
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tkfar Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 69 Location: Hattiesburg, Ms
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to all ! Crack that pilot jet ! It really works ! After having my 34 pict 3 rebushed by tim @ volksblitz, it really didn't hold an idle any better than when I sent it in. The front stud pulled out and Tim was kind enough to help me out with a step-stud. He also drilled out the broken pin at the ball check valve and replaced with a new one and when I cranked it up , it began spraying fuel on my generator! Another trip back to Tim's and it still ran no better....easy start..ran great on choke ...died coming off choke I was ready to bite the bullet and try fighting some dual carbs I had bartered for. I was even scared to try messing with the pilot jet just because I was afraid it wouldn't work. But....IT DID! On my cold engine , I cracked the pilot jet open 1/2 turn, started the car and it ran on choke just like usual. When the choke disengaged ,it was still purring. playing with the pilot ,I adjusted it somewhere between 1/2 and 1/4 and then messed with the volume screw to bring the idle down. Still a little fine tuning to do , but it is so nice to come to a complete stop without feathering the gas to keep the old girl running. MY ADVICE.... Try it , you'll like it!!! _________________ "Better to burn out than to rust"
1958 Single Cab
1971 Karmann Ghia vert |
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Lionhart94010 Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005 Posts: 1417 Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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FYI,
Due to the 10% Ethanol in your gas, if you are using the stock size idle Jet then it is too small, you need to go up at least one size i.e. 55 = 60 and many times it needs to go up to 65 or more to make it purr without having to mess with unscrewing the idle jet… the idle jet interacts with the main and the air correction jet… I have found if you have the correct size idle jet the carburetor adjustments screws fall within the factory turn out specs; if you have to turn them out more than 2.5 turns then that most likely signifies your idle jet is too small…
Gas stations without ethanol in your area, you may want to see how differently it runs with non- ethanol blended fuel :0)
http://pure-gas.org/
Hattiesburg TEXACO 87 Dandy Dan's #512 [601-264-4423] 6780 Hwy 49 N31.35973 W89.34947 details
Hattiesburg UNBRANDED 87 Dandy Dan's #513 2010 W Pine St N31.30676 W89.31212 details
Hattiesburg UNBRANDED Ed & Em's Quick Stop 1242 Elks Lake Rd N31.19061 W89.28810 details
Hattiesburg UNBRANDED 87 Fast Mart [601-268-0845] 1801 Broadway Dr. N31.30054 W89.32312 details
Hattiesburg PURE 87 Henry's Grocery & Deli [601-582-8088] 3536 Us Hwy 49 N31.15684 W89.23865 details
Hattiesburg UNBRANDED 87 Lake Serene Grocery 6411 Us Hwy 98 W N31.31772 W89.40872 details
Hattiesburg TEXACO 87 Mac's Triangle Station 301 Broadway Dr N31.31610 W89.30521 details
Hattiesburg UNBRANDED Stuarts Farm Supply 2413 Hwy 589 N31.27008 W89.46658 details
Hazlehurst UNBRANDED 87 Gallman Truck Stop 2092 W Gallman Rd N31.92591 W90.39973 details _________________ Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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tkfar Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 69 Location: Hattiesburg, Ms
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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as I said , I cracked opened the jet up somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 turn and it made a huge difference. It was really tightened down to begin with and I am probably guilty of doing it myself. After rebuilding it and then tearing it down at least 3 more times to make sure some other trash didn't get in ,I know I had to overtighten it. However, it being a "mystery " carb to begin with, I probably wasn't the first to do it. But with opening that small bit , do you think a step up in jet size is necessary? _________________ "Better to burn out than to rust"
1958 Single Cab
1971 Karmann Ghia vert |
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Lionhart94010 Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005 Posts: 1417 Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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IMO, it is best to use a bigger jet than use loctite and open the idle jet 1/2 or 1/4 turn, another method used by many DIY mechanics to help cure a loose throttle shaft induce pour idle was to just to take a triangular file and put a notch in the idle jet sealing surface = larger jet…
I used an AF meter to tune my 34-PICT-3, and it runs/idles best with a 70g; it ran OK on a 65g, but purrs hot or cold with the 70g… but that could be due to many factors and too rich for other engines…
You can buy idle jets at ACN…
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Solex-Kadron-Brosol-and-Bocar-Idle-Jets-p/solex-idle-jet.htm
From ACN
Quote: |
30 Series carbs should use a 50-55 idle jet.
If you are at elevation, your engine will be happier with a smaller idle jet. Go down "1" for every 1k' above sea level you are at. So Denver (5k') will be a "-5" from a sea level jetting on the idle jet.
The engine's idle will be based on the IDLE MIXTURE SCREW. Because of this characteristic, it's possible to be idling too lean with a 70 idle jet, yet too rich with a 45 idle jet, depending on how the idle mixture screw is adjusted!
So the idle jet size should be selected based on how it DRIVES on the progression circuit (not how it idles), which are throttle conditions from off-idle to around 1/3 throttle. Obviously a Wideband or a 5-gas Analyzer are best for this, please read our Wideband Tuning article for more insight! |
_________________ Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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JaymzD Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2014 Posts: 18 Location: Clovis, ca.
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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quote="keifernet"]the way the 34 pict 3 carb is designed ( and the 30- pict 3 and 30/31 brosol replacment carbs too) the throttle plate " butterfly" is supposed to be closed warm at idle... this is opposite of how all previous versions of the VW Solex carb were
So the butterfly is supposed to be "CLOSED"??? I'm not a carb guy, and have little experience working on cars to begin with so excuse me if this is a dumb question. I'm having a problem keeping my 34 pict 3 running after warm up. If I hold down the butterfly once it's warmed up it runs great. |
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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3889 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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What does "hold down the butterfly" mean? The throttle return spring should be holding the butterfly closed
quite firmly. And by "closed" I mean the throttle stop adjusting screw is in contact with the fast idle cam. Said
screw should be adjusted (if necessary) as per the procedure given in your Bentley service manual: with choke
completely open, turn in screw until it contacts the "base" portion of the fast idle cam, and then advance it
1/4 turn further. That last bit is just to keep the butterfly from slamming into the carb throat when the spring
snaps it shut: it does not open the butterfly to any significant extent. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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JaymzD Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2014 Posts: 18 Location: Clovis, ca.
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: 34 pict 3 issue |
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On Cold start the choke/butterfly is closed. After driving for approx. 15-20 minutes and the engine is warmed up the butterfly opens, the car then dies. It will restart without a problem. If I push butterfly closed or mostly closed it runs great. So perhaps not enough fuel? |
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bigbore Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003 Posts: 3296 Location: Wasilla Alaska
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the idle circuit is pluged to start with pull the idle jet and see if it is pluged. _________________ where its cold and snowy |
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bigbore Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003 Posts: 3296 Location: Wasilla Alaska
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the idle circuit is pluged to start with pull the idle jet and see if it is pluged. _________________ where its cold and snowy |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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bigbore wrote: |
Sounds like the idle circuit is pluged to start with pull the idle jet and see if it is pluged. |
Yes, that or the fuel/air mix is unusable due to too much air getting in from a vacuum leak. Or the idle cut-off solenoid not working. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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JaymzD Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2014 Posts: 18 Location: Clovis, ca.
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I have already checked and eliminated any vac leaks I had. I'll check the idle jet and go from there. Thanks |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: Re: 34 pict 3 issue |
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JaymzD wrote: |
On Cold start the choke/butterfly is closed. After driving for approx. 15-20 minutes and the engine is warmed up the butterfly opens, the car then dies. It will restart without a problem. If I push butterfly closed or mostly closed it runs great. So perhaps not enough fuel? |
Has it always done this or is it a recent development?
Sounds like you aren't getting enough fuel or airflow through the idle circuit, start by confirming the cutoff solenoid clicks when you touch the power wire to it when the key is on, then unscrew the larger adjustment screw on the side out 2 turns and see how it runs, if it still needs choke unscrew the smaller screw 1 turn, once it sort of runs follow the mixture adjustment procedure in the manual to fine tune it.
If none of that works remove the solenoid, both adjustment screws and the idle jet and blow compressed air thorough all holes, then put it back together with both screws 1 1/2 turns out from bottomed and start again. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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JaymzD Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2014 Posts: 18 Location: Clovis, ca.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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ok, removed adjustment screws, idle jet and cleaned everything and still the same problem. Runs good at start up and once I drive around 10-15 minutes the car dies when I come to an idle. Maybe time to take to an actual mechanic? |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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JaymzD wrote: |
ok, removed adjustment screws, idle jet and cleaned everything and still the same problem. Runs good at start up and once I drive around 10-15 minutes the car dies when I come to an idle. Maybe time to take to an actual mechanic? |
Did you do busdaddy's test of the idle cutoff solenoid? _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Skoolieman Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2011 Posts: 573 Location: Chattanooga TN
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I am sure its not the case but have you double checked that the fuel filter is clean and flowing? Also, have you tested for vacuum leaks, especially around the throttle shaft? I had success once turning the idle jet out about a half a turn and locktiting it in place. _________________ '69 Westfalia Camper~Cassidy
1600dp with H30/31 carb 009 distributor and alternator conversion |
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Skoolieman Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2011 Posts: 573 Location: Chattanooga TN
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I am sure its not the case but have you double checked that the fuel filter is clean and flowing? Also, have you tested for vacuum leaks, especially around the throttle shaft? I had success once turning the idle jet out about a half a turn and locktiting it in place. _________________ '69 Westfalia Camper~Cassidy
1600dp with H30/31 carb 009 distributor and alternator conversion |
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