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Beeps and high beams for all (pics included)
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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Beeps and high beams for all (pics included) Reply with quote

My 74 SB started beeping while turning the steering wheel and progressed to high beams engaging when driving with lights on. I have done a good bit of searching through the archives, but am still confused. I was expecting to see some stripped away insulation and an easy fix, but now I have more questions about how the horn/wiring works. Also, how tight should the steering wheel nut be? Could things be tightened too much?

EDIT: I had to use a 27mm socket instead of 24mm


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The green wire goes to the horn button and looks like its squished between that thick metal ring. I know the horn is always hot, does that metal ring make connection with the copper or shiny metal on the 2nd photo?


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Anything missing?

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Is the brown/yellow wire for high beam connection?

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I am assuming the green/black is the same wire connection that then goes to the horn button?

Any help is always appreciated.
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wayne1230cars
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The torque on the steering wheel nut should be 36 ft lb.
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JayO
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had to do this on mine a couple of weeks ago.
What I found on mine was that high beam switch contact (the gold piece on the left side of your second photo) was intermittently touching the horn ground contact (the bronze colored piece above it in that same photo).

It looks like there is supposed to be a small piece of plastic insulation between the two, but it was broken off and missing on mine.

The quick fix was a piece of electrical tape over the gold contact.
I went back later, while I was replacing the ignition switch, and glued a small piece of plastic which I cut from a coffee can cover in there.

The real fix would have been to get a new switch, but I'm cheap Smile .

Not saying you have the same thing, but that's what I had, the gold contact looks slightly different than mine. Mine is a '77.

Hopefully this helps.

- Jay
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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have been playing around with it for a bit, horn will go constant if the steering wheel nut is torqued so that there is no play. If let loose, it will work properly. On the other hand, if I screw in the four screws in picture 2, it will allow me to torque the nut properly but then the turn indicator lever is stiff and I worry that I am going to break something.

The washer behind the steering wheel nut is a little warped, however I don't think that's the big issue.

EDIT: should that plastic tab in picture 1 be inserted a certain way?
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wayne1230cars
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The washer is designed that way.
There is a gap of 2 - 4 mm that you need between the steering wheel hub trim and the switch. You might check that. The orange Bentley manual has a section on that. That is a good manual to have for reference.[img]Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.[/img]
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Joel
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just need to adjust the air gap like the diagram above shows
If you look at the bolts that hold the steering column to the car you will notice its slotted so you can loosen them off and slide the column down abit to open up the gap.

looks like you don't have a stock steering wheel either?
Might not be helping matters.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put some dielectic grease on that "L" shaped brass contact--where you can see it is wearing ... right where the "L" bends toward you.

It will save you more grief in the future.

Well, for a longer time, anyway.

Tim
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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne and Joel, thanks for the responses, I did not know about the gap between the hub. Is the gap created solely by the washer? I have nearly no gap as is and am including a picture of the washer. Looks like it is no more than 1.5mm, should I look at picking up a thicker one?

Edit: Joel, you are right about it not being a stock steering wheel, PO's pick.. looks kinda like a 3 spoke Grant but probably a no name brand

Tim, thanks for the tip on the grease, do you know what is connecting there that is causing the wear?

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ashman40
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's start with the headlight dimmer switch since it is simpler.
There are two brown wires coming from the turn signal switch assembly for this. One (brown wire) connects to a ground source, the other (brown/white wire) connects to the headlight dimmer relay (#S terminal). If the brown/white wire is exposed and touching anything it could be causing the headlight dimmer to activate.
Also, it is not uncommon for the two brass leafs at the far left of the turn signal assembly that makes up the dimmer switch to become bent and always contacting each other. Check this and bend the leafs as needed to keep them apart until the turn signal stalk is pulled. You can see the two leafs from the left side of the turn signal switch.

The horn is a bit more complicated to understand.
Since you know the horn is always hot (directly connected to a 12v+ switched source) you are a step ahead. This means you realize that for the horn circuit there is 12v+ all the way up to the horn switch. Consider that everything on the fusebox side of the horn switch is "hot" (positive) and everything on the opposite is ground. This means the following items are part of the "hot" side of the horn circuit and powered as long as the ignition is ON:
    Horn fuse (#11)
    Black and black/Yellow wire from fuse to horn
    Horn
    Brown and Brown/Blue wire from horn to turn signal assembly
    Turn signal assembly including the large brass "ear" from 9-o'clock to 12-o'clock in your second pic
    Contact ring on steering wheel in your first pic. Depending how your steering wheel is, this could also mean your steering wheel and steering column are also part of this circuit.
    Wire from contact ring to horn switch.

If anything in blue above comes into contact with ground, the horn will sound. Try to identify which it is and you will have found your horn beeping problem.

The gap between the steering wheel and the column housing is key to making sure the horn doesn't sound by accident. The gap between the two is adjusted by moving the column housing down, away from the steering wheel. Loosen the mounting screws from below and slide the housing away from the steering wheel. Unfortunately, they tend to gets stuck on the steering column. You may need to loosen the mounting screws and pound the housing down a bit. If your outer housing is plastic, only apply pressure to the inner metal core of the column housing.
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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashman, thanks for the detailed response. I have been trying to absorb as much information as possible and for the second time you have been a big help.

For the sake of anyone else who may stumble upon this thread with similar issues and not know where the mounting screws are ( like myself ), I found this page and associated photo helpful. Many wires up there to hide the mounts. I got them loosened and will adjust it tomorrow and report back.

http://www.vw-resource.com/ignition_switch_replacement.html

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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the mounting screws are very loose, I get side to side / up and down movement, but for the life of me cant push / pound the housing down. Looking at it, I don't see how loosening the mounts that connect to the steering column tube will loosen the housing. What am I missing?
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JayO
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my '77 there's an 8mm allen screw on the bottom of the housing which needs to be loosened to move it.

- Jay
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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay, I was staring at that screw (pictured between the mount screws two posts up), but was afraid to loosen it. I did remove it and still no go. School starts back up tomorrow, engage panic mode.
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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been pretty busy with school, but still no luck with creating the right amount of gap. I do get some play with the ignition cover, but not enough that the two still don't rub.

Can there be something else wrong?
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shakers73
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can spread the switch housing a little with a short flat heat screwdriver. Take the big set screw all the way out and the insert screwdriver between the two sides of the housing that the set screw pulls together to clamp the housing in place. Turn the screwdriver a little and you can feel the clamp opening up some. You should be able to slide the housing up and down then.

EDIT: should that plastic tab in picture 1 be inserted a certain way?

The plastic tab in 1st pic should be straight across from the turn signal lever. Make sure the lever is in the neutral position before putting cancelling ring back on the column. If the lever is up or down you risk breaking the little nub that the plastic tab engages when the wheel is turned and cancels the signal light.
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JayO
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad Pandas wrote:
So the mounting screws are very loose, I get side to side / up and down movement, but for the life of me cant push / pound the housing down. Looking at it, I don't see how loosening the mounts that connect to the steering column tube will loosen the housing. What am I missing?


So I take it you pushed the column tube down as far as it will go.

Try this then, loosen the 2 screws on the steering column tube and pull it upwards towards you, then take out the 8mm allen on the housing assy. and see if the housing will move downwards any more.
By pushing the tube all the way down you may be bottoming the housing out against the sheet metal above the column.

And as Shakers said, it helps to pry the aluminum casting of the housing open a bit, as it tends to get stuck after years of being clamped in the same position.

It's also easy to take the whole thing off to see if you are hitting anything above or behind it.
You just disconnect the 3 plugs at the bottom of the housing, slide it about 1/2 way up and disconnect the 2 washer tubes on the left side (if you're still running a pneumatic washer), and pull the whole thing off.

Just be sure to open the cap on the washer bottle first , and have a towel around the washer hoses as you pull them off as they will leak some washer fluid.

Hopefully this helps.

- Jay
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Bad Pandas
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for both the replies guys, I learned a good deal about the steering wheel housing over the last couple of weeks. After taking off the housing, looks like the rubber? steering bushing/spacer had dropped below its intended position and was keeping me from adjusting the housing. Man does that thing look ugly, rounded on one end from probably me trying to lower housing unit and bloated beyond shape. Going to be ordering a new one today.

Thanks to all those that lent their knowledge, finally I can stop ticking off strangers.
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