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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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I realize that I never answered Jan's question regarding drilled mainshaft. No .. while my original intent was to do this (just as we'd done with countless Porsche mainshafts), I opted to bathe 4th gear and bearing in the heat generating area, rather than hope to cool the gear from it's bore. The advantage to a drilled mainshaft would be ease of lubricating the tiny needle bearing adjacent to 1st gear .. but again, I've opted to splash oil to this bearing via a cross-drill from our oiled pinion bearing.
For those wishing to drill their mainshaft, I recommend Thompson's gun-drilling in CA. Drill all the way to mid needle bearing point, taking care to stop short of the threaded hole for joining stud.
One consideration for going this route is the thin casing material at the entry point. This is a potential leak area. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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fleet_maintenance Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2013 Posts: 323 Location: Upstate NY
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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gears wrote: |
.. I'm doing this in my retirement years. This is a hobby to me, and sharing all the details is what I've been doing with ANY knowledge about VW & Porsche transaxles that I've accumulated over the decades. Believe me, there is very little that hasn't been done before. I've just been lucky enough, and open minded enough, to have learned from many others. |
+1 for sharing all your knowledge and experimentation. Your willingness to do so (and to so freely field questions)has helped countless other members, and embodies (IMHO) what these forums exist for. |
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zeohsix Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012 Posts: 501 Location: United States
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="fleet_maintenance"]
gears wrote: |
.. I'm doing this in my retirement years. This is a hobby to me, and sharing all the details is what I've been doing with ANY knowledge about VW & Porsche transaxles that I've accumulated over the decades. Believe me, there is very little that hasn't been done before. I've just been lucky enough, and open minded enough, to have learned from many others. |
I'm sure Paul would be more than happy to supply the specilty parts to Matt @ A&A Transaxel if Matt showed interest in using his oiling design in a build. Parts such as reworked cases/drilled pinion bearings/Ggear housings with oil feeds/plumbing could be sourced through Paul ( or if he agrees myself.) The biggest problem is getting fixtures set up in the machines. Modifying these parts is a job best done in multiple unit runs because of the time requirements to set up, paying the shop where I borrow the equipment. My having to perform work while shop is not being utilized during normal day to day operations can cause scheduling conflicts. Realize these parts have hours of labor using expensive machinery/materials/processes to modify them.....around $1000 would be added to a rebuild cost ( then an external pump/filter/cooler/plumbing is added to that figure) There would have to be at least 3 people interested in getting modifications done and willing to wait for a 30-60 day turn around time for parts which pretty much limits the process to an established transaxle shop with spares on hand. _________________ I'm Cheap! I'll build that Syncro Westy myself and save money but, my labor is "FREE" especially if I ever go to sell it! One thing is I will know the quality of the parts and labor that went into the build and rest better when I'm actually driving said Westy down the road! |
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FrankenSubySyncro Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007 Posts: 638 Location: Vancouver, WA.
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Zeohsix, do you have any pics of where you moved the oil feed fitting to so it clears the gas tank when the trans is installed in the van? Do you know of any fittings that can be used without welding in a bung to the G-gear housing? _________________ Syncronize it!
1987 Franken Syncro (converted 2WD auto)
2004 2.5 SOHC Subaru
F & R lockers, decoupler, SS, 6.17 R&P
Trans Cooler
EMPI race prepped 930 CVs and axles
Bilstein coilover front, rear ProComp MX-6066R shocks, 14" hypercoil springs
30x9.5 15" BFG Muds
Custom skid plates
Nose job (custom front bumper) http://www.flickr.com/photos/subyvanagon/sets/72157624970330925/ |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Eric is presently fabricating a special fitting for our pressure relief circuit, which we believe will also be useful as a "bolt-on" solution to cooling 4th gear. This fitting won't be as effective (at delivering oil to mainshaft ball bearing and 4th gear) as our main oiling circuit (via the welded bung), but should be an improvement over merely returning cooled oil via the oil-add hole. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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boroko Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2012 Posts: 326 Location: S.W. Michigan
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all,
In the middle of attempting my first 094 rebuild. So far, so good. Since I have it apart, I am adding provisions for a circulation system. I tracked down some AZ92A rod and have practiced welding on a junk gear carrier. I have the stainless tubing and fittings and I'm fairly comfortable that I'm not going to mess it up once I figure out exactly where I want the bosses added. That part still has me a touch nervous. Looking at the blue one from Europe, it looks like they added more that we have covered here. Also, I haven't yet been able to find the FB pages that cover their mods. Still looking.
I have been scouring over three threads that cover this in a way that makes sense to me.
JWPate's SVX Gearing: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=491932
Gears' Syncro rebuild: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568039
and this one from Aleric.
I'm looking at the best way people have arrived at for the oiling. I don't want to drill the main shaft, but it looks like most of the same can be done without doing that. The cooler and pump are of interest, but at this stage, I'm more concerned with getting the sprayer locations correct. 4th gear and adjacent bearing, Pinion bearing, and Main shaft roller bearing seem to be the most pressing issues. Lots of ideas thrown out there, but I'm curious on what you have settled on.
Also, can someone explain the function of the ring on the end of page 2 (in its intact form)?
And what is this about a pressure relief? inquiring minds want to know..
Thanks all for sharing. I'm looking forward to some worry free (at least worry less) miles.
Mark[/img] _________________ '87 SyncroWesty: Smokey the Turtle, '85 SubiWesty: Chappie, '84 GTI, '86 GTI in full Rally trim,
previous: 2 Syncro tin tops, 2 Vanagons, 3 busses, 3 Ghias, 2 Jettas, a 411, a gas and a diesel Bunny and about 25 Beetles, one that only drove left. |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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The function of that ring from VW appeared to be to retain some oil in the shaft bearing. However, many have omitted it on reassembly after deciding that it also restricted movement of gear oil THROUGH the bearing that would keep it cool. I did not know that others also felt that way, and opted to eliminate it when I rebuilt my 094. I felt I would not be operating it on severe angles long enough to starve the bearing with a properly filled gearcase. To me, it stressed the bearing 100% of the time I drove it in order to perhaps(*) have a function during the 0.00000003% of the time I might operate it at a sustained extreme angle. And the angle to me was nearly impossible to achieve with the vehicle. There is also a ball check valve in the same housing to restrict gear oil flow rearward when climbing and I liked that feature.
So, I questioned the effectiveness of that part and eliminated it. I don't claim to be the definitive expert, but have held the position of Worldwide Powertrain Planner for GM and used to regularly study and evaluate durability, lubrication and other design aspects of both our powertrains and competitors. YMMV...
* I think modern gear oils are waaaaay better at retaining a film of oil even if a part is briefly not submerged than they were back in the 80s. One of the primary areas of lubrication engineering has focused on exactly this capability. _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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boroko Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2012 Posts: 326 Location: S.W. Michigan
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Doug,
I was beginning to suspect from hints here and there, that may have been the purpose. It almost looked like a slinger ring of sorts, but I wanted to hear that someone else had come to that conclusion. I am adding forced circulation, so that makes it especially redundant.
Good, one more question satisfactorily answered on the road to 094'dom.
Mark _________________ '87 SyncroWesty: Smokey the Turtle, '85 SubiWesty: Chappie, '84 GTI, '86 GTI in full Rally trim,
previous: 2 Syncro tin tops, 2 Vanagons, 3 busses, 3 Ghias, 2 Jettas, a 411, a gas and a diesel Bunny and about 25 Beetles, one that only drove left. |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Nice, glad to hear you are going after it. Where are you in SW Michigan? My wife and I are both from the area but did not meet until later in life out west.
Doug _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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boroko Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2012 Posts: 326 Location: S.W. Michigan
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm originally from "up North" as Michiganders say, Petoskey/ Harbor Springs Area, about 50 miles South of the Bridge. Employment moved me down to the Holland Area. Actually I work about 5 miles from and event every spring called Busses by the Beach. Regrouping after a significant change in life and just getting back into my Vanagon habit. (actually know where there are 2 more tin top syncros that I have first dibbs on, debating whether to grab them, or finish one first.)
I was stationed in Spokane , so I have traveled in your neck of the woods many moons ago. Would love to have an excuse to head back there, maybe see Coeur d'Alene and Sandpoint again. Maybe plan a whirlwind trip when Smokey is back closer to it's original self. I think it would be kind of neat to connect with half a dozen of the members and just plan the trip to meet them.
Right now, it's a concentration on the drive train. Get it road worthy again. Later, I'll attack the horrendous body. Current parts pile is a 2.5 Subi, RJES bellhousing, Burley mount/pan, and this 094 full of Long and GW parts. Found some G60's and already have some 15" and 16" Audi wheels. Now I simply have to bolt everything together
Mark _________________ '87 SyncroWesty: Smokey the Turtle, '85 SubiWesty: Chappie, '84 GTI, '86 GTI in full Rally trim,
previous: 2 Syncro tin tops, 2 Vanagons, 3 busses, 3 Ghias, 2 Jettas, a 411, a gas and a diesel Bunny and about 25 Beetles, one that only drove left. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I'm looking at the best way people have arrived at for the oiling. I don't want to drill the main shaft, but it looks like most of the same can be done without doing that. ... 4th gear and adjacent bearing, Pinion bearing, and Main shaft roller bearing seem to be the most pressing issues. Lots of ideas thrown out there, but I'm curious on what you have settled on.
...
And what is this about a pressure relief? |
The oiling method I have chosen is well documented in the pages of this thread.
My reason for incorporating a pressure relief is twofold: I don't wish to strain the oil pump when the gear lube is cold & thick .. and I do not wish for any leaks to develop (especially at entry points) .. again when the oil is cold & thick.
My method of pressure relief is straightforward .. use of a secondary oil filter mount with a bypass line. As for the special fitting utilized to make the best use of this bypassed oil .. that will be shown when it's completed and tested .. hopefully within a few weeks. Other life priorities have slowed development somewhat, but our "team" should be back on it soon .. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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boroko Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2012 Posts: 326 Location: S.W. Michigan
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:33 am Post subject: |
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The documentation has been a godsend. I have read these threads probably a dozen times hoping to glean one more tidbit of wisdom.
I guess, I'm just concerned about missing something, no disrespect meant.
It just takes a bit to go from these things being magic that only the wizards can work on, to firing up a drill and making holes in unobtanium.
Will probably start the holes today.
Thanks again
Mark _________________ '87 SyncroWesty: Smokey the Turtle, '85 SubiWesty: Chappie, '84 GTI, '86 GTI in full Rally trim,
previous: 2 Syncro tin tops, 2 Vanagons, 3 busses, 3 Ghias, 2 Jettas, a 411, a gas and a diesel Bunny and about 25 Beetles, one that only drove left. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Not a problem, boroko. We're finalizing our oiling system, and getting our bypass oil return fitting 'just right' is part of that. This brass & copper fitting is also a perfect answer for delivering cooled oil to 4th gear in bolt-on (no-machining) cooler systems.
The fitting, which replaces the stock oil-add plug:
The brass fitting is clocked, and the appropriate AN fitting can be screwed into it:
The return orifice is clocked to stream upward toward 4th gear, and won't interfere with a previously installed splash plate.
_________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Syncro Jael Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013 Posts: 2204 Location: Utah
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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gears wrote: |
The fitting, which replaces the stock oil-add plug:
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It looks to me that if I had (2)two of those fittings a person could extract hot oil from the drain on the transaxle, run it through a cooler, then drop it on 4th gear from the fill plug?
I would be really interested in that concept. I still would like to have the magnet at the drain though. _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6315 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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does anyone have any idea's where to buy transmission tools from, i have some already, but i'd like to collect all the necessary specialist stuff, before i get into a trans myself _________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6315 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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i know, but from a nerdy point of view, i'd like to have the real deal
ALIKA T3 wrote: |
search with the tool part number.
Most of it can be fabricated |
_________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6315 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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rubbachicken wrote: |
i know, but from a nerdy point of view, i'd like to have the real deal
ALIKA T3 wrote: |
search with the tool part number.
Most of it can be fabricated |
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Then, I dunno, I don't have the list with tool part numbers on hand and links for buying them.
Samstagsales has a few of them.
I don't have a single vw tool to work on this transmissions, everything has been done custom to replicate them _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Yes, Samstag is an excellent source for some of the special tools.
Alika, I will soon have a full set of tools in Kailua, so I'll have anything you might need. I'll be there in a week or so .. perhaps we should get together.
Yes Jael, a second brass fitting would make for a better bolt-on exit fitting than a tapped standard plug .. although I prefer the slightly higher exit point (in the bellhousing) that I have chosen. Use of a cleanable pre-pump 200-micron filter negates the need for the magnet. Our system will also have a second 60-micron cleanable filter.
Quote: |
... a person could.. drop (oil) on 4th gear from the fill plug? |
The fill plug is actually quite a bit lower than the mainshaft's 4th gear, so aiming the upward stream is rather critical as a bolt-on solution. Not so critical to me, as this will just be my bypass fitting, with most oil delivered from the top. The exit hole in the fitting will be tailored for actual flow. I imagine the hole shown will prove best as a standalone oil return fitting, and that a bypass exit hole will be a bit smaller. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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