Author |
Message |
Shewster Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2011 Posts: 200 Location: Modesto, CA
|
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject: Why do I "sometimes" blow smoke at start up |
|
|
I can't find a specific pattern. Cold, hot, etc. But sometimes when I start my '72 Std it will puff out some smoke during start up. It's random. The engine starts and runs fine. Just a little embarrassing when it does it.
Any ideas of the source? _________________ '72 Bug, One-family car, 350k happy miles (ok, a few of those miles were not so happy) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bertie1969 Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2013 Posts: 29 Location: Nantwich UK
|
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Assuming the smoke is blue then it's likely to be oil getting into a cylinder after the engine has stopped. It could be you have a worn valve guide and the randomness may be because the engine doesn't always stop in the same position.
If the engine stops with the valve in the worn guide open, then oil can settle on the valve stem and run into the cylinder - it only takes a small amount to give a cloud of smoke.
If this is the problem you may be able to see which cylinder is affected by checking the spark plug colour, if it's a very small amount of oil it may not show on the plug. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mr.Duncan Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012 Posts: 3542 Location: Houston, TX
|
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mine does the same thing.
and its a rebuilt engine with 800 miles on it
Brand new heads!
Randomly VERY random it will put out a puff cloud of smoke.
I kinda like it. _________________ (Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
---------------------------------------------------
1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
1971 Blue Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Java Green Std Beetle (sold)
1971 Red Squareback (sold)
1966 Red Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HRVW Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2011 Posts: 2531 Location: Rosarito, Mexico
|
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
With a new rebuilt (P & Cyls) could be the oil ring is not set above the 3 or 9 o'clock mark......maybe the rings were not "off" set properly on installation. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shewster Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2011 Posts: 200 Location: Modesto, CA
|
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good questions and ideas. I would call it BLUE smoke. _________________ '72 Bug, One-family car, 350k happy miles (ok, a few of those miles were not so happy) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
camaroboi13 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2013 Posts: 902 Location: San Bernardino, CA
|
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There's no two ways to put it...it's just oil getting past the valves or the pistons and burning up on startup. I honestly wouldn't worry about it until you start seeing it all the time. Most of the little Honda kids I see have blue smoke all the time...but that's what happens when you live your life around 7000rpm _________________ 69 bug 1600sp buckpack ceramic header w mondo muffler, riviera wheels, 185/65 front 205/70 rear, dual baby webers, big stereo in the works.
2001 Yukon Denali 6.0l AWD 24s TVs surround sound playstation 6 disc dvd etc etc.
2005 Nissan Maxima 3.5l stock mama's car
FFL GUN DEALER! PM ME FOR SOCAL TRANSFERS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Blue smoke is oil burning.
As mentioned, a puff on start up is of no concern to me. If you start using a quart or two between oil changes you've got something to be concerned about.
My 74, with a bone stock 73 1600 in it, will puff some blue smoke on start up. The longer it sits between uses, the bigger the puff.
I " rebuilt" the engine, new bearings, ground crank, cleaned oil passages, new oil cooler and new rings on used pistons and used honed cylinders.
The heads only got a good cleaning and valves lapped in, the guides weren't noticeably loose.
The engine doesn't have many miles on it. I rebuilt it three years ago and then drove it only slightly before I moved it into the shop for almost two years while I fixed the body rust and painted the car.
The most it's ever driven is this Summer and even at that its only for pleasure, jaunts for ice cream or a moderate drive on a Summer evening.
The odometer doesn't work but I'd guess I haven't put but 300 miles total on this engine. The rings may not even be seated in yet.
I KNOW that the ring gap orientation was correct on assembly so that isn't a concern of mine, most / many rings rotate around the piston as the engine runs anyway so ring orientation is really a moot point.
Bottom line.......
I don't worry about it! It's a 38 year old car! If people want to point and laugh at my little puff........ Let them!
Let them also realize that they don't have such a cool car of their own! Maybe they mock you in jealousy?
I have probably lost more oil from my loose oil pressure sender unit or weeping oil pan gaskets than I ever burned!
Relax! The car IS old enough to legally smoke!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shewster Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2011 Posts: 200 Location: Modesto, CA
|
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
Relax! The car IS old enough to legally smoke!
Dave |
Thanks Dave. Good points and great perspective. I live in Washington, so maybe if I put a roach clip on the tail pipe people will then understand _________________ '72 Bug, One-family car, 350k happy miles (ok, a few of those miles were not so happy) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pwmcguire Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2011 Posts: 1108 Location: Kennesaw GA
|
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I find mine smokes blue when my oil is just a little over full. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
camaroboi13 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2013 Posts: 902 Location: San Bernardino, CA
|
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
pwmcguire wrote: |
I find mine smokes blue when my oil is just a little over full. |
Blowby is quite common in that case. Typically it likes to come out the breather tube all over your pretty motor...count yourself lucky _________________ 69 bug 1600sp buckpack ceramic header w mondo muffler, riviera wheels, 185/65 front 205/70 rear, dual baby webers, big stereo in the works.
2001 Yukon Denali 6.0l AWD 24s TVs surround sound playstation 6 disc dvd etc etc.
2005 Nissan Maxima 3.5l stock mama's car
FFL GUN DEALER! PM ME FOR SOCAL TRANSFERS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
zombiebug Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2011 Posts: 1227 Location: Webster, MA
|
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Every blue moon mine gives a nice puff. Usually only when the car doesnt fire on its first or second crank. I'd give you a color if I could see it. All in all, im not worried. As long as she purrs nicely and isnt smoking constantly im happy. _________________ '74 Super |
|
Back to top |
|
|
72Bettie Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2012 Posts: 20 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A puff of smoke a start up is nothing to worry about. I would be more worried if you have smoke all the time. Also make sure you don't have too much oil in. I found my 72 likes to live halfway between the hash marks on the dipstick (exactly 2.5 quarts) for me. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
|
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have you ever seen a radial airplane engine start
There is a tendency for the bottom cylinders to get full of oil, due to, gravity.
The flat four, with it's horizontal cylinders, has a tendency to do this "sometimes". Frankly I'm surprised they don't do it more often. Does it mean something??? hmm, it can mean your rings aren't perfect, but as I often say about rings...... how they seal with the engine running is really the main concern, so your ok |
|
Back to top |
|
|
doublecanister Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2008 Posts: 1184 Location: Richmond, Va
|
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: mokin' |
|
|
how about after a long drive, say 35-40miles at speeds of 55 to 60-65,
let it set for 3 hrs
smoks on startup, sometimes have to floor it to start.
My 73' THING with 1600 started doing this recently very intermittant.
only once did i notice it low on oil after a long drive in the mountains.
seems to run ok but as far as the smoke color,
Ive never seen blue smoke, must be my eyes as it looks white
to white gray to me, but smells like burnt oil.
after driving it home, let it set maybe 10min no smoke to start and put in gargage.
I figure I'd get a compression tester and give the engine a check, re do the tune up, valves, timing, points, carb adjust it's been a while but we dont drive it ever day either.
any suggestions there?
Thanks
T
PS: i posted in here instead of the THING forum, not finding much there. Thought you guys could help. _________________ ****************************************
2020 - Mustang Eco Boost [High Performance]
1973 - Thing
1966 - Mustang GT- Fastback
1951 - Ford F1 pickup Flathead V8 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jlex Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2009 Posts: 2902 Location: NW Pennsylvania
|
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
May also depend on the viscosity/type of oil you're using. If using 10W30, try switching to 30W to see if things change. Pure synthetic, if used, may be sneaking by the rings as well... _________________ jlex.
'70 std. "Elsie"
'88 Carrera |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bertie1969 wrote: |
If the engine stops with the valve in the worn guide open, then oil can settle on the valve stem and run into the cylinder |
The oil would have to run up hill for this to happen.
Both my Beetles randomly blow blue smoke at start-up as well. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
birddog1 Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 950
|
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
jlex wrote: |
May also depend on the viscosity/type of oil you're using. If using 10W30, try switching to 30W to see if things change. Pure synthetic, if used, may be sneaking by the rings as well... |
That's a pattern I've noticed. It will sometimes smoke when I start using 10W30 but never when I use 30W. Not sure what the deal is but I don't worry about it. I file it away as another ACVW idiosyncrasy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
doublecanister Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2008 Posts: 1184 Location: Richmond, Va
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: viscosity |
|
|
You know, I did change recently or i should say I added a quart of the quakerstage "defy" 10w/30 as it's "supposed' to contain a bit more zinc/phosphorus for wear prevention.
i've run 10w/30, 30w, and 15w/40 before, usually with a bit of STP oil treatment for wear prevention and a tad of Marvel Mystery oil. (just a bit).
Not going to swear to it but the defy quaker oil could be part synthetic.
I figure I'd do a tune up this weekend, valves, timing, carb, points, check clean n gap the spark plugs and do an oil change if time permits all that.
Thanks for the suggestions!
I'll monitor it and see if it continues after the oil change.
T _________________ ****************************************
2020 - Mustang Eco Boost [High Performance]
1973 - Thing
1966 - Mustang GT- Fastback
1951 - Ford F1 pickup Flathead V8 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mouser98 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2012 Posts: 300 Location: Lugoff, SC
|
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
my rebuild has about 500 miles on it and it does the blue smoke thing about every other startup. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|