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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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the louvers are going away  ....back to split bus land......engine cooling air will be drawn in from both sides through an elongated rear bumper/ duct............stay tuned for that engineering challenge 
I got 2 of three type 3 deck pieces installed today...more progress 
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Pete - read my post from a couple days ago..........Have a little experience in this.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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eyetzr 
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1425
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey Grandpa, been following for a while now & I am really impressed. Nice work, efficient use of parts, cool project. I followed some of your stuff from the 3 crowd & keep popping in to see the progress. I love the bit about the tourists & the electric car. I had a friend put 10 12V batteries in a bug & wrap it in cheap Christmas lights. He would park it & people would be looking for the extension cord. We told them we were transmitting power from the transformer remotely. Funny how you can fool some people. Any way great job, keep it up. Cheers |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
...HAPPY GRANDPA!!
............................HAPPY GRNDPA !!!!!
...................................................................HAPPY GRANDPA !!!!!!!!!
............IT FITS 
..
...With 1 1/2 inches to spare !
...The Air duct/bumper looks like the way to go
HAPPY GRANDPA !!!
.......................................HAPPY GRANDPA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
At this point in time, I think I'd wait until I got that big floor section in place. You might find that the bus louvers might be able to be used to draw in some cooling air. You can then fab up some duct work (to hide behind the lower door), and bring in some cooling air that way. Keep in mind that for the most part, you really only need about 3 inches of ductwork along the rear of the engine. When we build my son's Roadster, we fabricated the ductwork for his engine. It's a tight fit in there, but it all works. We were only going off what I knew we needed back there, as far as drawing cooling air into the engine, since we were using a type 3 engine in his car.
Here's a pic of how the ductwork is set up on a Notchback (my old 71) while I had the rear apron off. You can see that it narrows up right at the cooling boot opening.
And here's a pic of a T-34 air duct (bottom 2 inches being replaced at the boot connection).
And a top side look at a T-34 opening.
I hope these help.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| My main concerns would be the available volume of cooling air, the cleanliness of the air (no mud or road crap getting kicked up into the intake openings) and making sure that the intakes were located far enough from the lower rear of the engine that they didn't pull in hot air that had been used to cool it. The original systems also hooked the carb/F.I. intake to the outside air inlet. |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I cheated a little putting the engine in ....There isn't any clutch ; pressure plate or throughout bearing in it .....I knew I didn't have the room to get the engine in with them on......After I fabricate whatever metal pieces I need I will be cutting out the rear panel so it is removeable...that will give me a " slide in slide out " engine an old guy can work with....That combined with a modified ATV jack will make my life easier
If you want instructions on this modification ; go to bay window forum and search " ATV/MOTORCYCLE jack adapter to remove VW engines "
_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery
Last edited by grandpa pete on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:04 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: |
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...Thks bobnotch ; luckily the only piece of the body I saved was this
I can get a precise measurement at the narrowest point..
.I was working with the square inch size of the narrow point of the rubber boot.
..cutting holes in the rear wheel wheelwells could be one way to go 
Where are the air intake vents on that T34 ?
Noteworthy SAMBA trivia.......This was Grandpa Pete's 2000 th post since 2008 when I started asking questions about bay window busses ....Thankyou to everyone who has made SAMBA my second hobby
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
...Thks bobnotch ; luckily the only piece of the body I saved was this
I can get a precise measurement at the narrowest point..
.I was working with the square inch size of the narrow point of the rubber boot.
..cutting holes in the rear wheel wheelwells could be one way to go
Where are the air intake vents on that T34 ? |
The t-34 gets it's cooling air off the rear trunk lid. Here's a pic.
This pic shows the air tray that mounts under the louvers and directs the air into the upper air box channel duct.
and here's the upper duct it drains into (far right is the actual air inlet to the cooling boot).
Like I said it doesn't take a lot of opening to get air into the engine.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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...Again : thanks for helping...I'll get this !!!....................With a little help from my samba friends............
What do you get when you add type 1 beetle parts to type 2 bus parts to type 3 squareback parts.....You get a " TYPE 6 "...
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery
Last edited by grandpa pete on Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DrKeck
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013
Posts: 309
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Pete, the project is looking great. I'm glad you are back to working on it. love seeing the progress. one question I have is, what is the part at the far back part of the engine? im not to familiar with type 3 engines, is it to divert air into the engine? or is the engine backward on type 3? I know stupid question but I have to ask otherwise I will never know lol. best of luck and cant wait to see that metal work all done!
also what kind of ATV jack is that, I have been considering buying one to drop my engine on my '66. I didn't know ATV jacks could hold the engine. learn something new every day on this site (never mind just read your post on the jack, looks like a trip to harbor freight is in order this weekend)
_________________
1966 Beetle
1600cc 50bhp
Daily Driver
Last edited by DrKeck on Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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johnathonkeck ; Not shure what you mean by "the part at the rear of the engine " but I'll get u some Type 3 info..
.You are used to a bug engine where the fan on top ; powered by the generator pulls air in and through the fan shroud and blows cooling air onto the cylinders and oil cooler..
A bug pulls it's cool air in through the vents above the engine hatch ; high and away from the exhaust
..Type 3 works a little differently
type 3 has a low profile that excludes the top mounted fan shroud...there is a fan on the rear of the engine that forces air foreward and down through a tin cover system onto the cylinders and the oil cooler
A Type 3 pulls it's cool air in through vents in the top of the rear fenders and ducts it down and around to the back center of the car where the fan is...
If you look at the photo of the back of the car with the engine in you can see the fan above the muffler
At this point I am limited in space at the fan opening and am considering options on how to avoid pulling hot exhaust into the engine
_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery
Last edited by grandpa pete on Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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DrKeck
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013
Posts: 309
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the info, I just assumed most vw's had the same type of engines.
_________________
1966 Beetle
1600cc 50bhp
Daily Driver |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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...." the stupid question is the one that isn't asked " is what I tell the grandchildren....and you 
This whole project was started as a challenge and has been an education to me...I knew nothing about Type 3 engines except that they didn't " stick up ". so off I went to the type 3 forum and started reading build threads....
WARNING ; Bobnotch has a 84 page thread on ONE car .
Took 3 hours of my life  .........cats..........boomerang countertops.......and funny white stuff on the ground 
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| jonathonkeck wrote: |
| thanks for the info, I just assumed most vw's had the same type of engines. |
I'll help Pete out here a little. He did get most of it right though, in that the belt cover for the generator doubles as a cooling air inlet for the engine. It also has a larger cooling fan right behind the one you can see inside the black belt cover (it's inside the silver shroud). That fan is the one doing all the cooling work.
What most people don't realise, is that the long block is basically the same as a type 1 engine. From 67 on, they came stock with dual port heads, and had 1600 cc pistons and cylinders starting in 1966. It just has it's cooling fan mounted to the crank, rather than the back of the generator on a stand, and uses a lay down version of the dog house oil cooler. This engine configuration allows for a lower profile engine and flat floor, for use in a wagon body style (Squareback), or a rear trunk (Notchback, Fastback, and T-34 Ghia) body styles.
I hope this helps clear up the mystery.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Coming along GP! I figure you know this already, but keep in mind that the engine will move a little, so the connection between the fan shroud and body will need to be flexible, i.e. the rubber boot.
Type 6 -- why not? 
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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...Donnie ..THANKYOU...as I was reading your post I said to myself "Oh that's RIGHT I wasn't thinking of that ".............  ........."with a little help from my SAMBA friends "
MR. Bobnotch ; thanks for adding in your Type 3 experteice..  ....again
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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eyetzr
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1425
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Hey Grandpa looking good. Do not forget while redesigning & designing the back end for cooling you need to connect the dipstick/ oil fill tube. Hey you could come up north for the type 3 invasion & leave the front 1/2 covered up & show off the good stuff. Cheers |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:26 am Post subject: |
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The dipstick was one of the few parts that was missing off the little Blue parts wagon...
....I ordered one last week from samba vendor BOO ZOO K for only $15 shipped which I thought was more than fair....
I have the receiver piece on the body ; when the " dipstick and tube " get here I'll figure it into the project
Thankyou eyetzr and Donnie and bobnotch and SBD and andk5591 and Thomas for helping with this Type 3 stuff....If you see or think of anything else I MIGHT HAVE MISSED please post it.
................." With a LOT OF help from my SAMBA friends "
Speaking of help ; I ordered a new Wagon Werks wiring harness for a 66 bug [ www.Aircooled.net $229 ] . I know I'll have to adapt all the taillight wiring and basic engine wiring ....;.. coil...oil pressure...generator...voltage regulator...reverse lights....
....The Type 3 question to this group is.....Are there any unique connections to a 72 Type3 engine compartment or are they just 1600 wiring flattened out ?
My friend DAVE .. ( the " NICE RACK " GUY ) ...was here Sunday and told me he would " put it up on the lift and double check everything before the initial startup " at his VW shop. That will be a great help !
_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:29 am Post subject: |
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The only reason I can see that you would have problems with the wiring harness would be because the '66 was 6 volt and (I assume) you're switching to a 12 volt system. It really should be about the same. Some of the 6 volt wires might be a bit larger but that's not a problem. You might have to extend some of them but that's simple stuff. You look like you can handle that kind of thing.
One thing I just thought of. I know my '63 Beetle (6 volt) had the voltage regulator mounted on the generator. Type III's have them under the seat. Not sure where it would be on a 66. It it's under the seat you should be good to go. Otherwise you'll have to change things a bit. No room to mount it on the generator in a Type III engine compartment. |
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