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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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This is a cool build. Congrats, those a great numbers out of your motor. More and more, mouse motors are appealing to me as my next build. I'd like to try for around 90hp out of a 1600.
brad |
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qwerty8669
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 231
Location: kentucky
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Those are very impressive numbers from a 1641. Until I saw this post I thought I was gonna have to go big to get 80lbs of low torque for my little creek Baja. But now you got me thinking other wise.
_________________
68 swing axle baja ( making 4x4s look stupid )
67 F100 Big Block ( loud gas eater )
97 civic hatch ( grocery getter )
90 t-top 300zx 5speed ( ticket monster )
looking for swap meets and places to ride in ky and tn
my build ( gonna be slow ) can anyone tell me what my seats came out of....???
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495087&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
car's facebook page ... like it !!
http://www.facebook.com/68bajabug?ref=hl |
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I too was surprised with the HP and torque, but more importantly very happy with the way it drives. A blast on the freeway =)
Increasing the compression a little more, a more aggressive cam and nice heads, you can probably exceed 90lbs of torque.
I am newbie and learning tons. Today I looked at my (snowman) heads for the 2332.
My goal is to finish them tomorrow?
These engines take an exuberant amount of time. It makes sense when a quality engine builder asks for serious $$$$ |
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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I finally made it down the strip.
Well... you be the judge =)
Link
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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You only get one pass?
_________________
"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I got 5 passes. My two best passes were 10.88_ |
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| mhisel wrote: |
If I had more of a budget I would have spent a little more $$$ and purchased some heads.
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Cool Build....the 352S Norris cam can be a good choice with the correct application build, which you just proved.
I have an assembled short block with same kam sitting on my work
bench, later to be finished out and installed in my 74 Thing with dual carbs.
I have prior knowledge of the 352s for I have ran that cam in the past.
What casting numbers are on your stock heads ? 311, 113, 040 ??
(Just curious on the performance of the stock heads)
you played with
_________________
70's....Owner "Der Bug Shoppe" Okla. City
70 Baja Street Rod Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1644125.jpg
Drag Buggy project:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1726674.jpg
61 Rag Project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1188580 |
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Heads are 113 |
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Jroggen
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:18 am Post subject: Re: The BIGGEST 1641cc Ever... |
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| mhisel wrote: |
This past Spring I built a Massive, Huge, enormous, little 1641. Stock crank with a mild Norris 352S. The flywheel is lightened to help this beast roar. rockers are 1.1:1, but will be 1.25:1. Deck Height is stock and head CC is stock. The stock heads were massaged. I round ported the intakes and raised the roof of the runners. Behind the valves I was able to get rid of some material. I presume this will help with flow. The exhaust ports were polished and the chambers were given the once over with a flap wheel and sand paper. I also installed single HD springs. The intake manifolds were match ported and swirled. Carbs are Kaddie Shacks best work. The exhaust is an Al's 1.5" Header with a Phat Boy Muffler to keep it.
The fan shroud and color scheme was influenced by my dad's favorite football team, The Chicago Bears (Blue and Orange). I think that's it.
I am finally going to run it and possibly dyno it.
I am guessing maybe 65hp on cold winter day.
Should be a fun driver
What do you all think about the build? |
Very nice, thatīs just what I want to do. 
Those stock heads where 1300 (375īs) ?
I was asking on another thread if those would fit the 1641 and the 1700 barrels. I read no and yes.
At aircooled.net it says no but on Rob and Daveīs (http://www.vw-resource.com/engine_rebuild.html) they say yes, and you get some more compression.
This is what Rob and Daveīs say:
You can use the 1300 cylinder heads, but there are two problems.
1.The valve sizes are a little small, which will restrict breathing for a 1600cc.
2.The compression ratio will jump to about 8.8:1, since you are squeezing more cylinder volume into the same head space. This needs about 98 RON octane (about 95AKI in the USA) to stop detonation.
Getting new cylinder headīs could be a good idea, but as many good ideas are expensive also.
Best regards, |
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| mhisel wrote: |
| Heads are 113 |
Thanks for the info
Your dyno numbers tell the story
per owners manual:
60 HP @ 4400
81.7 Tq @ 2500
your numbers:
70 HP @ 4500
75 HP @ 5000 
87 Tq @ 3500
86.4 Tq @ 4000
your torque curve was raised 1000 rpms over stock
and holds another 500 rpms loosing little
Why I was asking about your head casting?
My 73 thing eng. build will be very close to yours with the
exception 040 heads vs. your 113 and I will rework similar
same cam 352S Norris
34 EPC carbs which have 29 vents stock, but re-jeted
Exhaust will be collected 1 3/8" with glass pack & J tubes
(Thing, no heater boxes)
I elected to stay with stock size piston and cylinders....85.5
for I have heavier car and we are much hotter in Oklahoma
in the summer than on the West coast
I am running a 4:125 R&P with 235/75/15 on the rear
( I know a lot of people will knock the Empi 34's, but I did a
trade on the samba for a fresh set, installed on my daughter's
car: DP 040 heads 1600, with 09 and baffled stinger....
no issues, they run great, no flat spots, smooth, etc )
_________________
70's....Owner "Der Bug Shoppe" Okla. City
70 Baja Street Rod Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1644125.jpg
Drag Buggy project:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1726674.jpg
61 Rag Project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1188580 |
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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correction on the heads. They are 040. I ported the heads but I did not get a valve job. that is all original.
I originally built this motor with a low budget. this car is fun to drive. I can sit in traffic or scoot down the freeway. Did I mention it's a lot of fun |
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| since your having your heads worked on, Shave the step out of the heads and re-do the chambers. this will allow your to increase compression. If you had your case decked, check your piston deck height. This help with your compression and increase your numbers. your may want to inquire on a new set of 40x35.5. You can order them with smaller chambers along with larger valves and port size. food for thought. |
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mhisel wrote: |
| since your having your heads worked on, Shave the step out of the heads and re-do the chambers. this will allow your to increase compression. If you had your case decked, check your piston deck height. This help with your compression and increase your numbers. your may want to inquire on a new set of 40x35.5. You can order them with smaller chambers along with larger valves and port size. food for thought. |
Thanks for the info
I perform all my head work with the exception
of replacing the valve seats and flycutting.
my 040 have no steps
Since I already own them, I will prob stick
with the standard 35.5x32 and just P&P them.
I have a set
of 041s with: 40x35.5 that I am saving
for a 1776 build
_________________
70's....Owner "Der Bug Shoppe" Okla. City
70 Baja Street Rod Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1644125.jpg
Drag Buggy project:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1726674.jpg
61 Rag Project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1188580 |
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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This past Thursday, I made it out the track. again... Tons of fun. I improved on my reaction times and did not red light  I will post my best R/T and My best 60'. I also have more video to share.
I will be at Drag Day, but I am not racing tomorrow at drag day b/c of catastrophic failure, but I will be back out soon... |
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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My BIGGEST 1641 ever... is now dead.
Last Thursday while in the water box. I bent two intake valves.
Positive side to this;
1/8 mile = My best R/T was .0000 and E/T 10.77 @ 61mph |
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I am going to get another small displacement motor going but first the 2332 |
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