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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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 Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jtauxe wrote: |
I don't like it. The one in the '79 I got looks like the one in the above photos. but when it is in the seat position, it sits too high, and the back is too far forward. Not comfortable.
I just spent 3 hours at Austin VeeDub pulling out the original hardware for a rear seat, so that I can revert it to stock.
By the way, about 6 bay window buses have disappeared from Austin VeeDub since I was there this spring. Apparently someone is buying the old hulks. Their stock of aircooled vehicles is diminishing. |
John - Lift the bottom seat up and then backwards and down to the seat position. It is in the forward up position in the photo.
In the position it is in WHICH IS THE BED POSITION, the upright seat portion of the seat back is supposed to sit down in like on mine making a bed. Whoever took the photo took the seat bottom in the bed position and the seat back in a haven't put it down yet position.
This is what the seat should look like in the seat position.
Then as a bed
Last edited by SGKent on Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:18 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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it sits too high,
Mine was perfect. I wonder if yours is installed correctly?
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
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DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
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Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have the repro kit of the Z hinges supplied by www.camperstuff.co.uk :
They supply this slot-in support bracket with the repro kit, although they say using it is optional? It helps support the rear bench seat back support where it lines up with the rear shelf when the seat is down, to form the bed (some bays come with a slot that it fits into (Kombi bodies I think?), whilst the late Microbus body doesn't, mine is the latter, so I fabricated a thin steel bar, and used the existing factory threaded holes behind there too fix it. If off camping, I also throw in a 2'ft piece of 3"x1" wood, which I slide on top of the supplied slot-in bracket for even more extra support:
You guys with the original Z product, do you have to do something similar? Without some support in the centre there, I find if you place to much weight on where the top of the backrest lines up with the rear shelf, the backrest can slip down a couple of inches. There is a lot of scope for adjustment on the repro kit, so maybe I just need to fiddle about with the adjustments some more (although the aforementioned bracket does the trick nicely for me).
I like Steve's set up of a nice comfortable mattress (and the matching Z curtain rails are totally cool), but have my bus in it's 8 seater layout most of the time, only taking out the middle seat before camping trips, we use a Coleman double air bed mattress with two air compartments which is great, trying to sleep on the stock seats with no mattress is not recommended, it is a killer on your back.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| chimneyfish wrote: |
I have the repro kit of the Z hinges supplied by www.camperstuff.co.uk :
They supply this slot-in support bracket with the repro kit, although they say using it is optional? It helps support the rear bench seat back support where it lines up with the rear shelf when the seat is down, to form the bed (some bays come with a slot that it fits into (Kombi bodies I think?), whilst the late Microbus body doesn't, mine is the latter, so I fabricated a thin steel bar, and used the existing factory threaded holes behind there too fix it. If off camping, I also throw in a 2'ft piece of 3"x1" wood, which I slide on top of the supplied slot-in bracket for even more extra support:
You guys with the original Z product, do you have to do something similar? Without some support in the centre there, I find if you place to much weight on where the top of the backrest lines up with the rear shelf, the backrest can slip down a couple of inches. There is a lot of scope for adjustment on the repro kit, so maybe I just need to fiddle about with the adjustments some more (although the aforementioned bracket does the trick nicely for me).
I like Steve's set up of a nice comfortable mattress (and the matching Z curtain rails are totally cool), but have the bus in it's 8 seater layout most of the time, so we use a Coleman double air bed mattress with two air compartments which is great, trying to sleep on the stock seats with no mattres is not recommended, it is a killer on your back. |
When we had the 1971 I used it to haul more than 4 people at times so I made the pad so it had a fabric hinge in it with a zipper. I could unzip one side and flip it over into a double pad that sat behind the seat. The spare was on the nose then, something I will not do now due to age of the buses and cost to restore them. |
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| When we had the 1971 I used it to haul more than 4 people at times so I made the pad so it had a fabric hinge in it with a zipper. I could unzip one side and flip it over into a double pad that sat behind the seat. |
Brilliant idea. Thinking on that idea, you could make a 3/4 pad, and a 1/4 size pad, so as to fit around a spare wheel. Our bus is used as a bus the majority of the time. The two or three times we do use it for camping in a year, we have a decent size drive-away tent awning, and I pull out the spare tyre and cover, and put them under the rear bumper, and carry another flat piece of wood just big enough to cover the spare tyre well for the airbed, a bit of a PITA I know, but the bus is not a camper so I just have to improvise and deal with it. The versatility of the basic T2 never ceases to amaze me.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The versatility of the basic T2 never ceases to amaze me. |
x2 |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:25 am Post subject: Z-Bed aftermarket hinges |
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So Im looking at adding a z-bed to my bus. There are two aftermarket hinges you can get:
http://www.delmarretro.com/Work.html
http://www.camperstuff.co.uk/Site/Micro_bed.html
From the looks of pics it seems the factory z-bed and camperstuff z-bed are pretty darn reclined when in the upright position, has anyone used the delmarretro kit, it looks like it sits a bit more upright.
As well in the down position it seems there (z-bed) not quite flush with the rear of the bus, more down so your bed would slope.
My plan is to have a foamy that will cover the rear area and extend onto the z-bed. Now how long is this space? I might have to extend it as I've seen some people do, I am 6'1. My plan is to have the foam cut in two pieces, so when the z-bed is in the upright position I can stack both foamys in the rear so there not in the way. Now my only concern with this is them sliding around but Im sure I can find a way to have them velcro together or something. Or the zipper idea above is genius.
Right now there is a makeshift bed which is great, but I want to put some storage in and it will limit that as well I want to have the ability to carry more then 2 people in the bus if needed.
Ive been debating putting a 71 westy setup in my bus (minus sink unit), but people on here have discouraged me from that fact as my 72 is 95% original and I assume I'd have to cut and drill some holes.
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72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521
Last edited by matt94gt on Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kevinj73us
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Joined: September 25, 2011
Posts: 228
Location: Laurel, MD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:59 am Post subject: |
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With the delmar kit the seat back is actually forward from stock about an inch and a half when raised.
There is some adjustment you can make to minimize the difference in height between the seat and the cargo area. You still definitely want some sort of pad to cover the whole area (seat and cargo area) for comfort.
I'm 6'1" and there is plenty of length in the cargo shelf plus seat back and seat bottom. You can see how much space there is in some of my other gallery photos.
You will have to drill for the delmar kit.
kj
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1973 Station Wagon
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matt94gt
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Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| matt94gt wrote: |
Excellent, are there many holes you have to cut/drill in your panels or floor? That sounds perfect.  |
I hate drilling holes in these old buses, but you will drill a lot less and cause less change compared to installing a camper interior.
I understand that the original 1970's Z-products used some self tappers, but I struggled with that concept and safety implications in a collision. VW locked their seats down with M10 threads. After wrestling with the idea, I went with the M10 decision.
For the Camperstuff repro kit, I drilled four fixings per hinge, using M10x35mm zinc plated bolts, washers, and nuts with a nylon lock, plus a square plate underneath the bus. I doubt it will ever happen, but in theory M10 holes can easily be welded, ground down and sprayed over if someone ever wanted to totally reverse what has been done.
I also used two M6 nuts, bolts and washers on each cradle to secure the seat bases to them.
I later swapped the bolts for stainless steel M10x40 Allen head button bolts, which are more friendly to the toes.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury)
Last edited by chimneyfish on Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thats not too bad, 4 bolts. How did you like the brackets and seat position when up, and folded? Install difficulty? Do you have pictures of the hinge portion that causes the back to fold, just curious how it looks in your setup.
Im wondering if I can some how rig up some cabinets without drilling through the floor. But thats a completely different topic.
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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chimneyfish
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Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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My seat when upright sits flush where it used to prior to the Z-hinges install (actually a few millimeters higher than stock due to the base plates on the hinges lifting everything slightly, but the securing brackets have enough adjustment for that).
I got hold of some original Z-products clips for the rear seat when up, I was not impressed by their construction, very tinny, and could break apart in a collision in my opinion, plus as already discussed I also felt they pushed the seat to far forward:
So I used the original brackets, a lot more substantial, as in the picture below, they lined up nicely, but again, this picture was taken directly after install. I have since installed some butterfly bolts where they screw into the seat frame (M6 I think from memory) for ease of undoing the seat for bed use quickly as possible (and have a small bag to keep the bits in when camping, last thing you want to do is lose the securing parts).
Butterfly bolt:
| kevinj73us wrote: |
With the delmar kit the seat back is actually forward from stock about an inch and a half when raised.
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Kevin, is that a stock bracket rotated 180°, and are those double set angled hold downs supplied by Delmar or did you make them yourself? They look a decent set up, better than the original Z ones pictured above.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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matt94gt
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Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Best ask an original Z-bed owner on that one. There are several parts, so you need to make sure it is all there:
Have you read these threads? This one Karl put up the instructions, including a list of all the parts on the original Z products kit:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214427
In this thread by aircooledchris his pictures of a NOS Z-bed install have disappeared, which would have been handy for you, maybe message him for an opinion:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5217106
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| chimneyfish wrote: |
| Best ask an original Z-bed owner on that one. There are several parts, so you need to make sure it is all there |
Thanks for the links. Im hoping someone will chime in, the z-bed is complete with all mounts and brackets. Im just wondering the quality and fitment, as the others seem to be adjustable height to make it perfectly level. I dont mind spending the extra and doing it right the first time. But if a z-bed is fine, then I can put that money elsewhere.
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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mranker
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 271
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| matt94gt wrote: |
| chimneyfish wrote: |
| Best ask an original Z-bed owner on that one. There are several parts, so you need to make sure it is all there |
Thanks for the links. Im hoping someone will chime in, the z-bed is complete with all mounts and brackets. Im just wondering the quality and fitment, as the others seem to be adjustable height to make it perfectly level. I dont mind spending the extra and doing it right the first time. But if a z-bed is fine, then I can put that money elsewhere. |
I've been using my original Z-bed for camping for years. I've never seen a del mar kit in person but from the pictures it looks like a slightly beefier version of the same set up. The key to buying the original z-bed is to make sure all the pieces are there or you'll end up having to fabricate your own. The bed is adjustable to make it as level as possible but it will never be perfectly level nor will the del mar bed because you're using the stock seat which is not level in the horizontal position. You will have to add some padding to make it comfortable. If all you're going to do is camp get a camper. But if you want to keep your stock 8 seater and also be able to camp get the Z-bed/del mar etc. $50 is a good price if its complete.
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'02 Eurovan MV Weekender |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| jtauxe wrote: |
I don't like it. The one in the '79 I got looks like the one in the above photos. but when it is in the seat position, it sits too high, and the back is too far forward. Not comfortable.
I just spent 3 hours at Austin VeeDub pulling out the original hardware for a rear seat, so that I can revert it to stock.
By the way, about 6 bay window buses have disappeared from Austin VeeDub since I was there this spring. Apparently someone is buying the old hulks. Their stock of aircooled vehicles is diminishing. |
John - Lift the bottom seat up and then backwards and down to the seat position. It is in the forward up position in the photo.
In the position it is in WHICH IS THE BED POSITION, the upright seat portion of the seat back is supposed to sit down in like on mine making a bed. Whoever took the photo took the seat bottom in the bed position and the seat back in a haven't put it down yet position.
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Yup. Mine looks just like that and works just like that. And, yes, the seat back goes down all the way flat. Ish. Is your final bed as lumpy as mine? I see you have a matress on it -- that would help a lot, I can see.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| mranker wrote: |
| You will have to add some padding to make it comfortable. |
x2 on that, when going camping, I carry a Coleman double air bed with dual air chamber and 12 volt air pump. It fits perfectly on the made bed, like it was made for it, pumps up fast and packs away small and neat. You do not want to sleep on the stock padding, from bitter experience I can tell you now that it is a killer on your back, I mean REALLY BAD on your back, without a proper mattress or air bed.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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kevinj73us
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Joined: September 25, 2011
Posts: 228
Location: Laurel, MD
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| chimneyfish wrote: |
Kevin, is that a stock bracket rotated 180°, and are those double set angled hold downs supplied by Delmar or did you make them yourself? They look a decent set up, better than the original Z ones pictured above. |
Yes. The supplied seat bracket didn't work with my 73 seat- the spacing on the holes was a little off (and I traded some emails and pics with the Delmar guys about it) so just used the stock brackets. Yes those angled hold downs are from the kit. I really can't say enough about the workmanship of the parts and the willingness of the Delmar folks to answer questions.
kj
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1973 Station Wagon
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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So im finally at the stage where Im shopping for my bed.
I want to get some cabinets in my bus, so the issue is using the rear full width seat wont allow this, my plan was to use a z-bed kit on the middle seat. Is his possible? Im looking at the Del Mar kit. Id rather not go rock and roll bed as I want to use my existing seats.
Is the rock and roll bed wider then using a z-bed? It looks like they have a lot more length (pics below).
This is what I am trying to accomplish:
Could I do this with the middle seat, with a z-kit on it?
I imagine the middle seat is the same width as your 3/4 length rock and roll bed?
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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