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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:50 am Post subject: RHD Ghias, UK and AU |
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Hi folks! Have just joined the site and am blown away by the amount of information and knowledge here. I've recently acquired a 1961 Australian delivered RHD Coupe and am interested in the process that vehicles underwent to convert them to RHD. Reading Davies and Davies, in their book Volkswagen in Australia: the Forgotten Story, they state that the initial batch of Karmann Ghias imported into Australia were "to be converted to right hand drive using methods adopted by VW Motors Ltd. of London for their conversion." What knowledge exists out there as to this process? And what relation does this bear (if any) to the M numbers M 108 and M 008?
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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John Moxon 
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Joined: March 07, 2004
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Location: Southampton U.K.
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3915
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: Re: RHD Ghias, UK and AU |
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| PFN wrote: |
| 1961 Australian delivered RHD Coupe and am interested in the process that vehicles underwent to convert them to RHD. |
I read on the Club Vee dub site a while back of these "official" numbers for Ghias imported into Australia based on data provided by Phil Mathews.
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YEAR NUMBER
1959 15
1960 264
1961 284
1962 97
1963 81
1964 28
1965 31
1966 5
1967 0
1968 2
TOTAL 807
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My first Ghia was a 61 Ghia and it looked like a factory RHD. I've done a fair bit of research on the RHD subject on account of the RHD conversion of my '66 cabriolet. So I think most of the Australian imports were factory RHD vehicles. But in relation to your reference about the first batch, I think this either refers to the small 15 imported in 1959 or to the even smaller few that were imported for the Australian car shows between 1958 and 1959. We missed the entire lowlight period in Australia except for this tiny number of exhibition cars and possibly also those 15 in 1959. The complication is knowing just when the 15 cars were brought in. The model year 1960 started in August 1959 and these sales figures are year on year. There is a significant overlap.
By the way, we'd all love to see photos of your car.
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Aha, yes, that makes perfect sense in terms of the local conversions relating to the 15 from 1959 or the earlier exhibition cars.
Here's some photos of my vehicle...
On receiving the car's certificate from Wolfsburg it looks like someone in the past has thought that black over white looks better than the original white over black! And I can't say that I blame them. 
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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John Moxon
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Location: Southampton U.K.
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
| Is there any original evidence under the present paintwork to bear that out? The reason is those birth certificates aren't infallible...they can make mistakes. |
Looking around the edge of the glovebox lid and around the bonnet latch I can see black underneath. I remember reading in another thread a few weeks back that black over white wasn't offered for the 1961 model year. 
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Wow, I had no idea that there were so very few Karmann Ghias imported into Australia.
Heck, that means the Country Buggy was actually more common than the Ghia. 
FWIW, I like the black over white much better too. |
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8URN
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Joined: August 20, 2007
Posts: 107
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne,UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Great colour combo, but I would say that  , here's my RHD '64 coupe:
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| 8URN wrote: |
| Great colour combo, but I would say that , here's my RHD '64 coupe |
Nice indeed! Looking at your pic, it reminds me of something that I was going to ask of UK Ghia owners. Did you get the all red tail lights? M 009 'Yellow tail lights' was something that I naively thought would apply to the UK too, not just Australia and Italy. (Odd combination!). My certificate from Wolfsburg says M 009 'Automatic gear box'. Yeah right... 
That's a nice Volkswagen script on the engine lid. And chrome cooling vents too...
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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8URN
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2007
Posts: 107
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne,UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| PFN wrote: |
| 8URN wrote: |
| Great colour combo, but I would say that , here's my RHD '64 coupe |
Nice indeed! Looking at your pic, it reminds me of something that I was going to ask of UK Ghia owners. Did you get the all red tail lights? M 009 'Yellow tail lights' was something that I naively thought would apply to the UK too, not just Australia and Italy. (Odd combination!). My certificate from Wolfsburg says M 009 'Automatic gear box'. Yeah right...
That's a nice Volkswagen script on the engine lid. And chrome cooling vents too... |
Cheers, with regards to the rear tail lights mine originally were the amber and red but the previous owner changed them to all red along with clear lenses on the front with orange bulbs. The cut off year for the all red rear light MOT wise is 1964 so i just scrap in!!
The volkswagen script didn't become standard on the deacklid till 1963. |
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PFN
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Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I guess this is what mine looked like originally...
It's interesting that my searching came up with an (obviously!) UK RHD promotional piece.
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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bob-on
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: Re: RHD Ghias, UK and AU |
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| PFN wrote: |
| Hi folks! Have just joined the site and am blown away by the amount of information and knowledge here. I've recently acquired a 1961 Australian delivered RHD Coupe and am interested in the process that vehicles underwent to convert them to RHD. Reading Davies and Davies, in their book Volkswagen in Australia: the Forgotten Story, they state that the initial batch of Karmann Ghias imported into Australia were "to be converted to right hand drive using methods adopted by VW Motors Ltd. of London for their conversion." What knowledge exists out there as to this process? And what relation does this bear (if any) to the M numbers M 108 and M 008? |
I'd be interested to know who converted mine, the car must have been bought in London as the original owner was from Henley on Thames.
M108 is 'Custom Model' but I don't know what M008 refers to and neither do VW according to the birth certificate.
Mine has got the all red rear lights too. |
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John Moxon
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sputnick60
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
Something that is puzzling me "PFN" about your Aussie '61 RHD is why it would need to be converted to RHD when Karmann were supplying RHD cars from the factory from August 1959.
After the Lowlight era UK cars (and I'm assuming Aussie cars) were factory RHD...weren't they? At least that was my understanding. |
You're right. I was misunderstanding a passage from the book Volkswagen in Australia: the Forgotten Story. As Sputnick60 pointed out earlier in the thread it seems that the cars referenced as being locally converted were either the 15 imported in 1959 or an even smaller number brought in before that for promotional purposes.
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Very interesting, and great information. I'll need go and check again for the welds on the back of my dash. All this makes me want to do archival research not only on Karmann but VW as well.
P.S. I'm a Nicholas too. 
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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deejayess
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:15 am Post subject: |
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My 69 Ghia has evidence at the back of dash of similar welds.
It's an Australian delivered RHD car. Despite most articles saying 68 was the last year for Australian delivered Ghias, its birth certificate confirms dispatch on 17 July 1969 for Melbourne, Australia.
Previous owner told me he believed that there were actually 6 or 7 '69 Ghias delivered in Australia. He also told me he believed all shells were made LHD, then converted to RHD in Karmann factory as needed.
_________________
1954 Oval RHD (German Built, Australian Delivered)
1964 Beetle Karmann Kabriolet RHD (Australian Delivered)
1964 Australian 1200 Deluxe RHD
1967 Australian 1300 Deluxe RHD
1969 Karmann Ghia Coupe Euro RHD (Australian Delivered)
1973 1303S "Superbug L" Australian CKD RHD |
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Oh, that's good stuff! Thanks for sharing.
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:58 am Post subject: Speedos... |
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I just had a though... Australian Type 1 Speedos are VDO, of course, and marked "Australia". The Speedo in my Ghia is also marked "Australia". How are the speedos of UK Ghias marked? 
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3915
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Not answering your question but... at the time there was an Australian content restriction on all cars. A certain percentage of the value had to be made in Australia. So the easiest thing was to have electrical and instrumentation from Australian manufacture. Those are usually expensive items. So generators, headlights, blinkers, gauges, fuel pumps and so on were of Australian origin. Anywhere else that didn't have the restriction would have had german parts. There's probably a M code for those cars which would have mean not having the parts on the car.
Strange things occur when policy makers design cars. You should see the weird stuff that happens when lawyers and accountants design telecommunications networks
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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