Brake upgrade advice

[stevensjames]

I looking for some advice on upgrading the brakes on my 1954 Bug. I have searched the forums and online and found a lot of information but I still not sure what direction to go. I originally thinking of the Porsche 356 brakes but don't know which ones will work a (A or B), or what modifications are needed. I also found some information regarding aluminum cooling rings, drilling the drums and "twin trailing shoes". I not sure exactly what the "twin trailing shoes" are or what they are off of. Anyone have some information on this subject. advice? It would be great to see what others are doing. I don't want to do the disc brakes even though probably be easiest way. I running a Judson Supercharged 36hp engine with late tunnel trans and just want some more braking than the stock system provides. Thanks in advance for advice.

[Loren]

You can use either A or B Porsche brakes. I believe A brakes are easier to find, at least they seem more common. I got a set of B brakes for my Ghia on E-bay earlier this year and they are not cheap, though you can still find reasonable deals if you troll E-bay long enough. I am still a long way from installing them so I don't have much first hand experience to offer, but you can check out this thread for some information http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...p;start=60

The fronts will bolt up to the stock spindle and the rears will bolt right on too (so I've been told). I am not sure what needs to be done to make the e-brake work. I think there are a few threads that discuss this so you might do a quick forum search.

These brakes look great and will make for better stopping, but for the price they almost become more of a novelty item. Be prepared to pay around $2400+ for a restored set. If you buy a used set make sure the drum linings are still within specs and that the drum doesn't have any cracks or damage. It is costly to have the aluminum drums relined (around $300 ea.) and be sure they come with all the hardware and cylinders. If you don't know what you're doing buying a set of used 356 brakes can get really expensive and the learning curve is steep if you get stuck with a set that needs a lot of parts and work. You migh also check Stoddard's web site and see what parts are available and how much they cost, so you have some idea of what you're in for.

[John Moxon]

There you go: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=846684

An easy, efficient and cost effective way to add braking power to your stock drum set-up. Your Judson set-up isn't going to be a street screamer...you don't need to spend thousands on making it stop a little better.
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John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[stevensjames]

Thank you for the feedback. I really like the looks of the Porsche brakes but after doing some searching they do seem to be more than I really want to spend just for the looks. I actually installed the semi-metallic brake shoes when but have not had a chance to see how much improvement there is as I am still working on engine and hopefully will get done this weekend for a test run. Has anyone tried those aluminum cooling rings? I don't know if those really do much but they are cool looking and gives some of the novelty similar to Porsche brakes. How about venting the drums? Seems logical that would help some too. I don't expect a the engine to be a screamer but the people around here drive like crazy and want the best braking I can get while staying true to the vintage style. Thanks again.

[djway3474]

A friend of mine recently put those brake shoes in his baywindow bus that has disk up front and drums in the rear. he said there was a significant improvement in the braking power.

[slalombuggy]

You could always find a set of early Type 3 rear drums and backing plates with much larger shoes and drums.

brad

[stevensjames]

I have definitely considered swapping the rear drums to type 3. I seem to remember seeing some information about doing the swap and was pretty straight forward from what I recall. Almost bolt on except have to grind down the drum to fit the short axles.

[pig-pen]

does anyone have a link for a current supplier of those kymco brake shoes???
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1954 L227 Type 113
1964 L31 Type 265

[John Moxon]

[Erik G]

Kymco is out of business

Have you tried John? He has "Super Stopper" semi metallics

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Performance-VW-Brake-Components-s/138.htm

Cheers
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[pig-pen]

'55 and later. Alas I am '54...
I am going to get them relined with a 'different' material by a specialist here in the UK...
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1954 L227 Type 113
1964 L31 Type 265

[JeeWee]

I have a 57 oval with a WW okrasa 1192cc, and increased stopping power by mounting the later 40mm wide front drums, and in the rear the type 3 45mm wide drums, all in the 5x205 drum pattern.
Original it is 30mm wide shoes and drums all around.

Next to that, I don't like the cheap brake shoes which are produced somewhere in the world... so I had mine relined with competition friction material, so better stopping power, probably comparable to the advise from John regarding the super stopper shoes.

I run 2 different diagonal bias ply tire setups, 5.00 in the front and 6.40 in the back or 5.60 in the front and 6.00. I have to figure out which combination works the best with braking and stance.

[Robert Chambers]

[pig-pen]

which year did the 40mm start?? and do I need modifications? I assume I will...
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1954 L227 Type 113
1964 L31 Type 265

[j-dub]

I am also perusing the better brake shoe route.

A few years ago I purchased the semi-metalic shoes from john @ aircooled.net that he calls the super stoppers. The rears were fine however the fronts have such little meat on them that the arc did not match, only the center of the shoe was touching the drum during braking.

The foumula Vee guys use brake shoes from Carbotech and Porterfield. Traditionally race pads needed to be hot before they worked well, modern materials have largely resolved this issue and both of the above manufactures make pads that can be used on the street and are far superior to what you would find at the local auto parts store.

Organic brake linings have a coefficient of friction of about 0.2
Semi-metalic linings are up to about 0.3
modern carbon based linings can be 0.45 and up!

I have just ordered a front set from Porterfield for my car. Will update this post after I get some miles on them.
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1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on."

[Robert Chambers]

[Erik G]

[Robert Chambers]

From reading various publications it looks like type 1 shoes are the following:

Fronts:
'55 to '57 30 mm wide
'58 to '64 40 mm wide
'65 to '78 40 mm wide changed angle at shoe ends so adjuster screw slot angle changed also
Rear:
'55 to '57 30 mm wide
'58 to '64 30 mm wide
'65 & '67 30 mm wide changed angle at shoe ends so adjuster screw slot angle changed also
'68 to '79 40 mm wide

All diameters are listed as 230 mm

I hope this helps?
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'63 OG 117 Herbie Replica
'56 Euro Oval Deluxe
'52 Standard Zwitter
'63 OG 117

[RichardinNZ]

When I fitted Type3 brakes on the rear of my '58 I had to have the new shoes 'radiused' to fit the new drums. There was no way the drums would fit over the shoes without this being done. It did however mean that there was maximum contact area once the drums were fitted.

Looks like the best drum setup (ignoring 356 drums) is therefore post-'58 drums on the front and type 3 drums on the rear (as JeeWee, me and many others).

I have heard of people fitting front wheel cylinders to stock rear drums to decrease pedal effort?

The other upgrade I have found to help is good quality stainless braided flexible brake lines. I've done this on three of my cars over the years and found the pedal to be far firmer on all of them. I fitted the Goodridge Classic setup to my current '58. These are black and look like stock lines at first look.

Richard
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Richard
'58 Beetle; NZ Assembled
Dual Carb 36hp
My Car https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1750253

[JeeWee]