17s on 77 SBc - offset compare

[TJs73Vert]

hi all!

i found a cool calculator at wheel-size.com for comparing offset. With it, I made this:
[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/[/img]

This image attempts to compare a stock VW wheel and tire combo to its Plus 2 equivalent. So, 165/80-15 to 205/50-17.

The application illustrated is 77 Super Convertible, stock fender, stock struts, stock 165/80-15, on Lemmertz-style 4.5Jx15 et 41.

I measured and reported THESE stats (required to use the calculator):
1. suspension (strut to tire rub point) clearance = 1"
2. fender clearance (tucked or outside) = 0"
3. wheel well clearance (the gap) = 3"

If YOU don't have these same clearances, you'll have better or worse results of course. I was trying to be safer than sorry but YMMV!

With these measurements, the calculator allowed me to create a wheel that will fit with the +2 size. That wheel is a 17x7 ET36 MAXIMUM, but to decrease ET moves the wheel and tire outside its well. By 33 you're way out there. So, ET35-36. If you have less clearance at the strut than the 1" i used,, this ET number must be lower.

Modifications to increase your wheel size options are as such:
Wider fenders will allow you to use lower ET values, like ET21.
Narrower struts and springs will allow you to use higher ET value, like ET44. These values apply to this 7" width wheel.

If you try to use an adapter, you will need to increase the offset value, because they cancel each other out. (The higher value trying to move in what the adapter moved out.)

I'm thinking best bet is to redrill drums or rotors to whichever bolt pattern gives you the greatest choice of 17x7, ET 35 +-1. But I also recommend an additional lug on a Plus2 upgrade. So 5x114.3?

Remember, a budgeted plan is, at the least, a good scapegoat for when things go wrong later! It worked out on paper!

i'm just joking, but always measure twice and buy once.

**
I'D LIKE TO ADD MORE POPULAR SIZES HERE, SO I'LL DO SO BUT ANYONE ELSE CAN REPLY WITH A RESULT YOU'VE MADE. you never know when this tool will go offline and these are just refs.

i'd like to do 17x8, 16x7, 16x6.5, 15x7, for super beetle.

And of course standard beetles could use their own similar thread if anyone wishes to start it.
**

[TJs73Vert]

Sorry, I've tried for an hour but the pic keeps saying uploaded successfully but then shows a broken jpg icon instead of the actual picture. So the pic is here if anyone else knows how to post a pic here.
http://i.imgur.com/Vtp1WS0.jpg
I don't know why u can't just host it at imgur and site the url

[Joel]

You're over thinking it, the best fit on 2 bolt supers with a 17x7 is et55 which is common size in watercooled VWs and Subarus so 5x100 is a good stud pattern.
Less offset than that with stock fenders and they scrub too much.
_________________
Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[TJs73Vert]

I'm definitely over thinking it, it's all I've thought about for days. I'm making Photoshop pix to try to decide a style, but they're limited by size so i need to know the right size first.

I've read a LOT of your past posts so i really appreciate your input here. But that calc said an et55 would rub. That IS based on my rough measure of 1" clearance between stock tire and stock spring. But I'm not even sure i have a full 1". Measure WAS rough. No less than 3/4" though...

The one pdf online i found suggests et45 is the size and you still need the Toplines to fit those. This is why i thought the calc was right suggesting no more than et36 without 'em.

http://m.imgur.com/a/yqbsH

That link is my Photoshop pic with a half dozen different wheels on the same body. I prefer the bbs rs or enkei92 in gold w polished lip for a vintage look fitting for a '77.

I'd like to be @ 17", 205/50 series, 1.5" lower and not outside the front fender more than half an inch. But i don't think a wheel exists for that without buying the really pricey strut option, and i already need front disc conversion. Cha-ching! So just trying to get this right the first time, and trying not to blow the entire budget on a wheel upgrade. If there's a way to do it with stock struts, i haven't found a solid yes or no for this model bug yet.

This is very confusing but hopefully it will become clearer.

[Joel]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you are not going to get 17s on a super with stock springs and fenders, otherwise no one would need to buy/make narrow coil struts.

As the suspension moves up and down the gap between the wheel and the spring changes so the measurement you're getting isnt consistant throughout the suspension range.
I found when mine was still 2 bolt with a 7" wheel anything over et50 stuck out too far unless you;re not lowered much or going for the mexiflush look.
also the further out you space them away from the strut the more pressure it places on the suspension and makes the steering heavier

If you;re on a budget and dont want to buy Topline Maxx, Kerscher etc theres several budget ways to get narrow coil struts.
In the 90s I did the Honda EF civic hatch/CRX spring conversion on stock struts which works well.
the rear springs from those cars are similar diameter to topline maxx.
the top rubber spring holder from it sits nicely in the lower super spring cup and the lower honda metal cup can be welded to the upper super spring hat.
Years later when I wanted to go lower i picked up some cheap coil overs, welded the hats to the vw ones and cut the housing down to take shorter MK1 inserts.

I'd go smaller than 205/50 17s on the front.
I tried them on mine and had to take them straight back off.
They are too big, aside from it looking like a monster truck even at a sensible ride height they rubbed like crazy.

Best fitting sizes I;ve found for 17s is 205/45 and 215/40.
_________________
Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[TJs73Vert]

thanks for this detailed info. i heard a bit about the honda method, so i appreciate you mentioning this. i'm still very confused what to do.


but i just dropped my phone in the washing machine. i am now frazzled and wish i could finish this reply i just started. argh. i need to take a break.

some days....