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issues with a 74 sun bug
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: issues with a 74 sun bug Reply with quote

Just picked up a 74 sun bug. It seems to be in pretty good condition, very little rust, runs well.

There are, of course, a few things that need to be fixed.
Fixed by adjusting the idle speed
Quote:
1. First and foremost, it failed aircare for the previous owner. Granted he took it in cold. Other than making sure that the engine is good and hot, what can I do in short order to make it through the test?


Fixed
Quote:
2. The smell of gas in the font seat, specifically drivers side, is really bad. I'm going to have to replace the fuel lines. Is there anything that I should be aware of before I go into this job?

3. The Defrost is not working. There is heat in the car, just not onto the dash. I admit I haven't looked into this yet but since I'm listing problems I figured I'd include it and hope that somebody could give me the common places to check before I start.

4. The Odometer is not turning. Speedometer works well and accurately though. Is this controlled by a separate source? I always thought that the Speedo cable turned both.

5. The sunroof operates smoothly and well. However it is letting water into the car. I'm guessing that I'll need to clean the drain tubes and replace the seal. Anything else that it could be?

Thanks for your help folks.


Last edited by GingaNinja on Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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19super73
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gas smell is coming from old vent lines to/from the gas tank. There are some on the left and right. Replace them all.

Is the felt seal still present for the sun roof? If not, this is most likely your source of the draft.

As for defrost, it could be a number of things from making sure you have everything set correctly to get air to the windshield, to the paper tubes and things being either missing or deteriorated to the point than no air travels through them. Check for all the flaps opening and closing properly first, then check to see if the tubes are either deteriorated or missing.

Sun roof
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Evap system
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Super gas tank. Note, two vent lines are on the left of the car, larger one on the right.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1970 Campmobile [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-47260.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1970 Fastback 1600 TL
1971 Doka [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-14845.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1973 Super Beetle
1973 Westfalia [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-31892.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1974 412 Variant
1975 La Grande Bug
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the response. There are a lot of line segments in the 25-20 image. Are those all flexible or are some of them hard lines?

The felt is still there. The sunroof doesn't have any draft, there is some water on the floor in front of the passenger seat that I suspect is coming in through the sunroof though.
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19super73
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are getting a gas smell into the cabin, most likely it's the vent lines in the trunk. Work on those first. All the segments are soft line, but the tube from the trunk down the passenger side of the car is a harder plastic (sometimes blue in colour).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



If you have water entering the cabin, most likely you have a blocked drain tube. Some one posted at one point that they used a bass guitar string to clear the tube, I think it was an "E" string.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Some people will lengthen the tubes.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1970 Campmobile [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-47260.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1970 Fastback 1600 TL
1971 Doka [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-14845.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1973 Super Beetle
1973 Westfalia [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-31892.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1974 412 Variant
1975 La Grande Bug
1984 Vanagon
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take your advise on the vent lines and start at the front. Given that these are vent lines and no liquid fuel is/should be running through them, do I need a high quality line or will will standard braided line work fine?

I remember reading about using an E string to clean out the tubes, somebody else was using compressed air to blow them out. That's the reason I'm not overly worried about a leaking sunroof. Chances are it will be a simple fix. Is there a reason that the original drain tubes don't run all the way out?

A guy that I work with told me that the easiest way to get through aircare is to remove my air filter so that it's completely unrestricted. Essentially just running things lean. Will that actually work?
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72Pstroke
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a plastic gear inside the speedometer housing that drives the odometer. That plastic gear will split and cause the odometer to quit working. I do not know if the gear is available anywhere or not, but I have super-glued them back together in the past.
Tim
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tim,

I guess I'll add 'tearing apart the dash' to my growing To Do list. While I'm back there I'll see what I can do about the fuel gauge, it didn't go to the top when I filled the tank and really hasn't moved much since I've been driving the car around for the last couple days.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your timing could be off; your carb adjustment could be off. You may have the wrong carb/distributor combination. Lots of things can screw up a smog test.

19 Super, the guy with the pics, is your best friend.

I, too, have a 1974 Super Sunbug and the fuel smell was terrible when I bought the car. I replaced every single hose, coming and going, to and from the tank and expansion chamber. I even replaced the expansion chamber with a good used one because mine had a small crack at one of its male ends. I also pulled the tank (no big thing) and replaced the hose that goes from under the tank to the tunnel. Wolfsburg West has all those bendy fuel/breather lines that connect to the "T" near the gas-filler pipe, by the way.

Now, I have NO fuel smell.

After checking all that 19 Super said to check with the defrost, open your trunk and shine a flashlight beyond the hinges. Check to see if the defroster hoses that come up from your heater-channel snouts, are connected properly. I had one loose and had to fix it.

Tim
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
Your timing could be off; your carb adjustment could be off. You may have the wrong carb/distributor combination. Lots of things can screw up a smog test.

Well that's encouraging. Here's to hoping it only failed last time because it was cold.

Quote:

19 Super, the guy with the pics, is your best friend.

Hello new friend! Very Happy

Quote:

I, too, have a 1974 Super Sunbug and the fuel smell was terrible when I bought the car. I replaced every single hose, coming and going, to and from the tank and expansion chamber. I even replaced the expansion chamber with a good used one because mine had a small crack at one of its male ends. I also pulled the tank (no big thing) and replaced the hose that goes from under the tank to the tunnel. Wolfsburg West has all those bendy fuel/breather lines that connect to the "T" near the gas-filler pipe, by the way.

Now, I have NO fuel smell.


I have another 74 that has become a parts car. I'll check to see if the connectors on there are in good shape.

Quote:

After checking all that 19 Super said to check with the defrost, open your trunk and shine a flashlight beyond the hinges. Check to see if the defroster hoses that come up from your heater-channel snouts, are connected properly. I had one loose and had to fix it.

Tim


I just started the car up on my break and I noticed that I really don't have a lot of airflow even from the foot vents. I may have to go even farther back than I had first suspected.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the engine off, pull off both heater tubes and have someone pull up on the "Heat" handle--all the way. Check to see if the little doors in the heat exchangers are open all the way (you may need a mirror and flashlight). You may only have to adjust the linkage while you're down there. No big thing.

However, at idle the fan isn't going all that fast, and the heat coming into the cabin is much reduced, compared to when you're upping the rpm's when out on the road.

Tim
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, turns out it wasn't just that the bug was cold that caused it to fail air care. (smog testing in BC)
I warmed it up nicely and it passed all the load testing but failed the idle test.

Is there something that I can do to get me through the test and then reset for practical use? If not I'm looking at having to take it in to one of their mechanics to do 'repairs'. Fortunately, due to the vehicles age, I can ask them to do no more than $300 to get me a conditional pass.

I pulled out the trunk liner and started tracing the fuel vent line. No wonder I was getting high on gas fumes! The lines weren't even hooked up to the gas tank, they were just shoved down next to the defroster line. Which, from a quick look appears to be connected fairly well.

I'm off to Lordco to get some new vent lines. Thanks again for all the help you've been pouring my way!
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

$6 dollars and a few minutes with a screwdriver in a parking lot and all of a sudden I no longer smell gas in the cab. Strike one problem off my list!

I was showing the bug to my father-in-law and it suddenly struck me as it is sitting there idling. The idle is set so low that it is missing every 5 to 10 seconds. It's no wonder that the air care failed the idle tests. Is there an easy way to adjust idle speed? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell us the kind of carb you have, and we will tell you how to adjust the carb.

However, you'll need a tach/dwell to do this--especially to pass smog.

I suspect, however, that the mechanic who does repairs for your smog, can spend a few minutes adjusting your carb to "smog-passing" specifications. And he should not charge anywhere near $300.00.

Any decent mechanic can adjust a carb as simply as a, say, a 34 PICT 3 in three minutes or less.

Tim
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19super73
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your problem getting no air flow at the front foot vents could be that the cables are either broken, unhooked or missing. People did many strange things to these cars and then bitched that the heat never worked. Quite the opposite. If your system is all there and in working order, you can get quite a high amount of heat out of the car. The only time it's tough is when you are doing a lot of stop and go driving in the cold but you should have the 2-speed booster fan in the Super that helps with defrost and vent heat through the dash. For some odd reason the PO's PO of my '75 took that fan completely out and then cut strips of headliner and glued them over the 6 exit air vents in the interior next to the rear window. That car now fogs up worse than anything I have ever driven. I am adding the fan back and taking the headliner strips off.

I'm in Alberta so have zero experience with that money-grab sham called Aircare. We don't have it at all. I've got a Sun Bug parts car and many Super parts if you are ever looking for something, I may be able to help out.
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1970 Fastback 1600 TL
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1973 Super Beetle
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that I'm a new comer to the VW world... where is the identifier on a VW carb? I will take a look at lunch so that I can let you know what it is.


19super73, Where is the booster fan located? I remember reading about a two speed booster fan but I don't recall most of the information. Is there a switch to go from high to low or is it controlled through the thermostat, or some other method?

Glad to know there are some parts available this side of the border. Smile
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19super73
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fan is housed behind the black rectangular section in the trunk along with the wiper motor. If it is missing or not working, they are NLA so you will have to find one in the classifieds or have someone rebuild it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The fan switch is on the dash by the vent controls.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1970 Campmobile [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-47260.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1970 Fastback 1600 TL
1971 Doka [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-14845.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1973 Super Beetle
1973 Westfalia [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-31892.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1974 412 Variant
1975 La Grande Bug
1984 Vanagon
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SBD
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GingaNinja wrote:
Given that I'm a new comer to the VW world... where is the identifier on a VW carb? I will take a look at lunch so that I can let you know what it is.

The model # is cast into the side of the float bowl on the outside of the carb. I believe yours should be a Solex 34 PICT 3.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked. Yes indeed it is a Solex 34 pict 3.

19super73, turns out that the fan is working really well on the defrost. The problem seems to be the dummy who didn't realize that was a fan control knob. Embarassed

Anyway, that clears up the flow to the defrost, unfortunately there still doesn't seem to be any heat up there. Should the fan have any effect on the floor vents? I hope not, because it doesn't.
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19super73
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering if your heater box flaps are working/hooked up. Could be broken/removed cables.
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1970 Fastback 1600 TL
1971 Doka [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-14845.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1973 Super Beetle
1973 Westfalia [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-31892.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1974 412 Variant
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GingaNinja
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a fun trip home. Shocked
I started the car up and the gas pedal didn't come back up. I tapped it a couple times and it still didn't come back. So I crawled down there and sure enough, the cable end has popped off. I gave an experimental tug and it was still working on the other end. Rather than trying to put a set of vicegrips on there and work that with my toe I elected to crank the idle adjustment screw all the way in (Good News! I now know where the idle adjustment screw is!).
With it all the way in I managed to limp home and only get honked at once! Laughing

So, I'm about to pull the throttle control cable out of my parts car and install it into the Sun Bug. Is there any tricks I should be aware of as I attempt this for the first time, in the dark?
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