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bluedot
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 439
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the information, I hope to put it to good use.
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Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
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varagon
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2013
Posts: 116
Location: SE Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Living in Kansas it gets cold here. I'd love additional options for heat.
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1973 Karmann Ghia Convertible |
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bt
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2004
Posts: 441
Location: chicago
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asbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2008
Posts: 287
Location: N.W. Ga.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| bluedot wrote: |
| j.donnel wrote: |
| Have you thought about marketing it as a kit with instructions on how you set it up? I know I'd be interested. |
Thats a great idea - I'll try to put that together and will let everyone know as soon as it is up!
ri |
I have a '69 Ghia Vert and have been following this thread for a while.
I would be interested in a kit...
I can do the install, but having the harness right out of the box would be sweet.
Thanks for keeping this thread updated, a lot of the time you can tell people finished their projects, but never put that last 5% of what they did to actually make it work and it kinda leaves the rest of us hanging.
Nice looking dash as well.
KC
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1969 Ghia Vert - Jenny.
2004 B5.5 Passat Wagon - no name yet.
2012 Routan - Urban Assault Vehicle. |
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aspirit5
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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love this post.
great idea! i was actually looking for something like this!
would you be able to post more picture of your installation, to see what it look like in the karmann.
thank you.
Sebastien |
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bluedot
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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Hey Sambanistas
Glad to see that some people actually see the benefit of this electric heater instead of the mockery I got when I first put this info up. 
This thing works awesome. It's not a hair dryer like some assumed it would be. It's a 10,000 btu heater!
Yes, it required large wiring and a 90amp alternator, but having instant defrost and heat is making our ghia drivable other than just perfect summer days.
I can defrost my windows while the car is warming up the driveway in just a couple of minutes, like a new car. Miles before the heater boxes kick in.
It would be hard to provide a kit with wiring, etc - as it took a bit to install as you can see by this thread. Use car stereo wiring, as you can get 1/0 stranded and flexible.
Not much to see, as it uses the factory defroster ducts. I capped off the fresh air, as it was too difficult for me to figure out how to add a Y and a damper. I figure if you want fresh air - put the top down, right?
First image shows the temp outside vs the temp at the defroster. (Note, the big number is relative humidity, the second number is temp) 82f vs 59f outside.
This is the vent, the 2" hole I hated to drill thru the kickwell, but it brings heat to our feet when warranted. It turns off via position. This is off.
It kinda looks like that movie Brazil! (esp with the rothfink decal) I had planned on changing the flex duct out with stainless tubes - but haven't gotten around to it. I'm actually thinking of covering all this with some door skin and upholster it so I can use the trunk without messing with my crossover and stuff.
I ended up using a high end alternator - a Compufire Dual Cool, which has worked flawlessly with the following items running at idle:
- 60a electric heater
- 110w high beam H4 headlights
- Seat warmers
- Wipers (12v converted)
- Stereo with amp and sub
http://www.mooreparts.com/compufire-dual-cool-high-output-90-amp-vw-alternator-polished-finish/ |
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kman
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005
Posts: 739
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| Impressive. |
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NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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This looks like a pretty good setup. Since this thread started I have installed the BN2 Gas Heater in my car. I found all of the Ghia specific bits which was not easy.
I certainly would have looked at this setup.
It is really nice to have instant heat and makes the driving experience completely different. Once you have something like this you realize how weak the stock system is.
I can drive my car on cool days with the top down and the gas heater cranked.
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Ghia Owner Emeritus |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| bluedot wrote: |
I think you're wife has great insight KGCoupe - and as another lady now in your life (at least on the forum) I now know your smiley's are gentle. I will appreciate any comment you make from here on - and learn appreciation for the sense of humor.
I've made an effort to not tell everyone my gender on the forum for the last 100 posts, but maybe its a girl thing.  I just didn't want to be patronized, and here you figured me out via a forum! Damn. And my ghia isn't even pink.
I grew up working on VW's, & street rods with my dad and brother since I was a little kid at their shops. I'm the webmaster for the House of Ghia too. Full disclosure.
More on this install soon! I'll put thermometers in the photos when it's done, k? |
Not only is your ability to actually complete a project once it has been started far greater than my own, but clearly so is your ability to keep your promises.
| bluedot wrote: |
...
First image shows the temp outside vs the temp at the defroster. (Note, the big number is relative humidity, the second number is temp) 82f vs 59f outside.
... |
Congratulations on a job very well done, bluedot!
I love your attention to detail as clearly evidenced not only by the thought and careful planning that went into all of that wiring, but also by its super clean installation.
Instant heat - whether provided by an electric heater, or a gas one - is definitely something to be envied in any automobile.
Seeing as you already have the high output alternator, have you also considered installing some seat heater grids under the upholstery as well? |
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swavananda
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009
Posts: 889
Location: Can o' Scruz
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| bluedot wrote: |
Hey Sambanistas
Glad to see that some people actually see the benefit of this electric heater instead of the mockery I got when I first put this info up.
This thing works awesome. It's not a hair dryer like some assumed it would be. It's a 10,000 btu heater!
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Well I disagreed then and still . But with no intention of mockery . I fully encourage one to enjoy their car how ever they see fit. I also know every one has different life experiences that build and formulate our opinions. What one thinks is awesome may only be Meh to someone else.So I will play devils advocate on this subject to reflect a different opinion , To allow any readers to contemplate further before they throw down a huge chunk of change for an electric heater .
I use a 30 amp. heater for a window defroster and hand warmer, and it works great for that. 2 of them at 60 amp , which how much watts have, will not come close to heating the car. I could put a thermostat next to it as well and would read 115* but that heat dissipates quickly away from the unit.Plus that 60 amp heater was intended for supplemental heat for tractors and industrial equipment with 200+ amp alternators. I don't see how a 90 amp alternator will keep up.Thats my opinion based on who believes in the law of physics.Physics explained in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=537127&highlight=electric+heater
I'm glad it works for you and you are having fun with your car. To others , Well , It's your choice if you want to pay that kind of money. No harm done at the end of day.
Other threads on the topic:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200
Last edited by swavananda on Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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This is ten times the wattage of your two 30 watt heaters.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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swavananda
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009
Posts: 889
Location: Can o' Scruz
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| Sorry, I meant 30 amp. |
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bluedot
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| swavananda wrote: |
Well I disagreed then and still . But with no intention of mockery . I fully encourage one to enjoy their car how ever they see fit. I also know every one has different life experiences that build and formulate our opinions. What one thinks is awesome may only be Meh to someone else.So I will play devils advocate on this subject to reflect a different opinion , To allow any readers to contemplate further before they throw down a huge chunk of change for an electric heater . |
That post you refer is filled with assumptions, that now substantiate an opinion by you. Written by people that haven't used this heater. Why? Just to disagree without knowledge?
This was way cleaner and cheaper than a gas heater. I saw an $1100 price tag with a gas one - I figure this was like $600. With the alternator upgrade.
I have nothing to prove, as I'm using it and not selling it, and I personally don't care if you use one or not - but to make assumptions without actually doing anything with one of these is pretty messed up. It spreads disinformation, which is counter-intuitive to the intention of a user forum. This is made with a different tech than heat strips. It's military spec. But that would take reading the links I provided, researching and perhaps even buying one and testing it.
Welcome back to the Samba. <sigh> |
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NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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I have no more than $600 into my gas heater...and that includes a rebuild by Martin Allen who did a fantastic job making this thing like new.
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Ghia Owner Emeritus |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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I will say they have over rated the btu output by 5x. 10,000 btu's requires 3000 watts. 600 watts would be around 2000 btu's. That should still work for that volume of air, but there is something wrong with their rating.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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bluedot
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| Northof49 wrote: |
| I will say they have over rated the btu output by 5x. 10,000 btu's requires 3000 watts. 600 watts would be around 2000 btu's. That should still work for that volume of air, but there is something wrong with their rating. |
How do you know this? Why would the government buy this for their Hummers? Why would you make assumptions without testing and knowledge? |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| bluedot wrote: |
| Northof49 wrote: |
| I will say they have over rated the btu output by 5x. 10,000 btu's requires 3000 watts. 600 watts would be around 2000 btu's. That should still work for that volume of air, but there is something wrong with their rating. |
How do you know this? Why would the government buy this for their Hummers? Why would you make assumptions without testing and knowledge? |
Please don't get me wrong. This isn't a judgement, or subjective. It's simply math. 12 volts x 50 amps = 600 watts. So they got that right. But after that, the conversion of 600 watt to btu's isn't mathematically correct. 600 watts comes to around 2000 btu's not 10,000. Just doing the math, not judging.
Watts x 3.4 = btu's.
600 x 3.4 = 2040 btu's. How did they come up with a 600 watt heater producing 10,000 btu's? The math isn't right.
I'm not saying it doesn't throw out enough heat. I'm simply saying their math is suspect in rating a 50 amp 12 volt heater at 10,000 btus.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner
Last edited by Northof49 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:59 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Heating for Ghia |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
I'm going to go all metric on you bluedot.
You say your heater is a 10,000 BTU heater.
10,000 BTU = 10,550,559 Joules.
10,550,559 joules per second = 10,551 Kilowatts !!!
A 40 HP engine is only 29.83 Kilowatts.
10,550,559 joules per hour = 2.930 Kilowatts
That's a very nice amount of heat for warming up your car.
2.930 Kilowatts at 12 volts requires 244 Amps to create (P=IE)
That'd be a big alternator and 10% of what a VW motor can produce!
I'd say there is something not right about the 10,000 BTU
You also say your alternator is a 90 Amp Alternator and if all of that goes into the heater...
Power = Volts x current = 12 x 90 = 1080 Watts
That's still a good heater but more realistic when considering the sources of energy in a VW
Nothing personal here. Just numbers. I like your electric heater but maybe its being misrepresented by the supplier if it is labelled 10,000 BTU.
But there's no doubt that the installation works.
Nicholas |
I really don't get why some ideas on here are challenged, even attacked so much more than others. If you bothered to actually read what bluedot posted, she didn't say it was 10000 BTU's the website she linked to did.
_________________
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Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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