Propex HS2211 heater install--overview

[kourt]

Greetings everyone,

I bought a Propex HS2211 heater from our friend Karl at Westy Ventures (website) and installed it in my new-to-me 1991 Vanagon Westfalia camper.

The heater arrived just fine and Karl was helpful via email when I had a question about propane fittings.

This heater is designed to be installed outside the van, underneath the body, in between the body support rails in the undercarriage. There is barely enough room to do this, but it's possible with some modifications.

Here you can see a profile of the passenger side of the van with the heater installed. The bright metal case of the heater is just barely visible below the sliding door.

Looking slightly aft under the van, but on the forward end of the heater, you can see the 1/4" propane supply line feeding the heater. The instructions are a little vague on how the fittings work, but once I figured it out things went together smoothly. I have a Truckfridge, so the propane outlet for the old Dometic was used for the Propex.

Now we're looking under the van, aft towards the rear axle. The cold cabin air input and warmed cabin air output tubes (70mm each) are shown here. They should probably be insulated. They exit the heater and enter the bench seat through two holes drilled in the floor of the van. Lining these holes with something to protect the tubes and seal the holes is an area where the customer has to be a little independently creative. I used black butyl sealant leftover from a prior air conditioning repair kit, and that worked well for the job. The sealant comes in rolls and looks like taffy, and molds to irregular surfaces well.

The bright flexible tube fastened to the rear cross rail is the combustion exhaust tube, and above that is black flexible tube, the combustion intake tube, which terminates farther away (per instructions from Propex). What I don't portray here is how I had to modify the Propex combustion intake and exhaust tubes on the heater to make all this fit in the confined space below the van. The hard connection tubes exiting the heater are too long, and a hacksaw was used to remove about 3/4" from those tubes. There is still plenty of room left--about 3/4"--for the flexible intake and exhaust tubes to slip on and be properly clamped down, but they depart the heater at a short radius angle in the confined space under the van. The heater did not complain about any air resistance--it works fine--but I'm sure my modification puts me out of warranty.

"No bash plate? No POR-15 on the heater?" Not yet--but maybe later. I have an old Westy propane tank bottom plate that might do the trick for that job. Having bare metal under the van like this begs for corrosion, so I am thinking it will be painted with black BBQ grille paint sometime soon--again, that will void the warranty.

Shown here is where the supply lines enter the bench seat space. The cold cabin air tube simply terminates slightly above floor level in the bench seat space, and draws its air from inside the bench. The warmed cabin air tube terminates at the face of the bench seat with a plastic grommet and vent fitting supplied with the heater.

The heater thermostat wire harness enters the floor of the van here through a rubber grommet, and proceeds along the floor of the bench space to the rear closet, where it joins the thermostat. The heater's DC power wires also enter the cabin here, and they join a heavier DC power cable set which goes to a 5A fused circuit on a Blue Sea fuse panel (I'll cover that install some other time).

On the left is the warmed cabin air tube vent. To the right you will notice the rear heater has been removed, and the opening covered with a very sturdy steel wall louver from McMaster-Carr, item# 1667T43, for $35.91. It comes painted gray and simply screws in place, and is very heavy gauge steel--it can withstand the toe and heel kicks from passengers that will inevitably occur in this part of the van. The purpose of the louver, other than covering up the unsightly hole where the rear heater was, is to ensure ventilation in the bench seat area for the cold cabin air return to the heater.

The heater is controlled by the usual thermostat setup, which is installed up high on the driver side. They look crooked, but it's just the perspective--they are level.

The heater kept me warm at Garner State Park in south central Texas over Thanksgiving. Outside temps were around 30 degrees F, and inside I kept the thermostat turned very low--maybe 60 degrees F, possibly lower. I don't have a thermometer in the van yet, so I can't be sure.

In all, I am very glad I bought the heater and took the trouble to install it. Installation can be challenging if you are not careful about planning and comfortable with modifying things on the heater or in the van. The two sticking points in the instructions, as I mentioned above, are the specifics of how the propane connection is made to the heater, and the best method for facilitating the 70mm air tube passages through the floor of the van. The Propex installation instructions call for 2.75" holes, but elsewhere in these forums I have seen 3" holes suggested, with rubber insulation to fill the void. My black butyl method is not perfect--it's messy, and it might not tolerate warm temperatures--but it was what I had on hand at the time of installation.

There is not a lot of margin for error in the location I chose for this installation--the 70mm air tubes are limited in where they can be drilled at this location. I didn't put the heater tubes under the fridge because I have a lot of wiring in there, plus an inverter/charger that really wants to be ventilated well.

Stay tuned for more posts on my van modifications, including 100w solar panel installation (with removable mounting hardware), fuse panel, inverter/charger, and volt meter.

kourt

[dhaavers]

Nice, very complete post on a great subject. Congrats on your new heater!

Looking forward to your other projects!

- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[westyventures]

I'll throw in a couple notes here to hopefully make this a little easier for the next guy.

Gas connection: I find that very intuitive - the supplied fitting screws onto the threaded piece on the heater, then the copper is routed to it and into the compression fitting and tightened down. Ideally, routing the line up and over the frame in one of the floor divots will offer greater protection from snagging on road debris.

Combustion pipes: as shown in this mockup photo, I don't see any reason why the stubs would need to be shortened.

I would highly recommend moving the end of the exhaust flex pipe to exit near the sill/rocker panel, not under the van.

Where the ducting enters the van, the holes can be cut slightly larger and grommets installed, Mcmaster.com has a few. I am still looking for a slimmer alternative and will begin supplying these soon. In the meantime door-edge trim or slitted rubber hose would be a good alternative to protect the duct from the cut metal edge.

If you wish to add protective paint, I would recommend an epoxy paint.
Great to hear you're staying warmer now, congrats on the instal!

[IrideWheelies]

How timely, this post. UPS just dropped off my HS2211 as I read it.

Thank you for posting a write-up of your install. It will help me a lot.

I'm hoping there's enough room for both the heater and a westy propane tank on the drivers side. My propane tank hasn't been mounted yet so I can scoot it forward of the factory mount location if I need to. I haven't measured yet so maybe it won't work, but that is my plan for now. I want to save room on the passenger side for cargo space for spare parts like this thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497051&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I'm so ready for this heater! I spend all weekend camping with a Mr. Buddy heater and, yes, it was warm, but the water vapor made the van really soggy inside.

I liked the webasto I had before this except I couldn't find a good place for the kerosene tank so I gave up on it. The 2211 should be a lot quieter too.

Karl, can you give us an idea of what the grommets from McMaster are like?

I don't really like the cabin air grille that came with the 2211. The blue "grommets" are strange too. I might use the grille I ordered for my webasto ducting. You could open or close it and rotate to aim the air output.

It's only $14 http://www.suremarineservice.com/9012300A.aspx
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89' Dove Blue Syncro Hightop

[westyventures]

[DeadSetMonkey]

Any experience yet with the undercarriage mounted heater unit being exposed to road grime, salt, slush, snow, etc?

I'm curious to know if the heater is "tough" enough to sustain all that abuse?
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'90 Syncro Westy 2.5Subi Turbo, BFGs 215/75/15 Rheins

[epaddler]

Good thread, as I'm considering getting one to avoid taking up additional space in the bench storage area. In my van when I added the Truckfridge I took Karl's advice and mounted my aux battery in the passenger side of the bench seat storage. I have also added larger wheels and so have all that space up front where the spare tire used to be.

I haven't crawled underneath to check yet, but I wonder if it is possible to mount the heater between the frame rails where the spare tire used to sit. Perhaps the vents could be run into the cavity where the aux battery used to be and point toward the rear camping area. If it works it might be a good option for those who have made those mods to both wheels and aux battery.
_________________
1989 Syncro Westy
My build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=450246

[epaddler]

Good thread, as I'm considering getting one to avoid taking up additional space in the bench storage area. In my van when I added the Truckfridge I took Karl's advice and mounted my aux battery in the passenger side of the bench seat storage. I have also added larger wheels and so have all that space up front where the spare tire used to be.

I haven't crawled underneath to check yet, but I wonder if it is possible to mount the heater between the frame rails where the spare tire used to sit. Perhaps the vents could be run into the cavity where the aux battery used to be and point toward the rear camping area. If it works it might be a good option for those who have made those mods to both wheels and aux battery.
_________________
1989 Syncro Westy
My build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=450246

[Phishman068]

I'm with you on that lang! I was thinking of this as soon as this new one came out, mounting it behind my front skid plate. I can't imagine it wouldn't fit, there's a ton of space up there!

I'd have to install a westy propane tank though, which i'm not a fan of as they stick low (low in my mind). : /

I would run the plumbing into the dash fresh air vents.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936

"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry."

[kourt]

Howdy all,

Karl, thanks for the notes in your reply. I hope I didn't sound too critical in my original post, and I appreciate your support in my installation. I should explain my experience with the installation and instructions, and this might result in more developed instructions or an easier install for someone else.

The heater is supplied with two sets of instructions: the factory Propex installation booklet, and a single sheet instruction supplement that Karl helpfully provides, and which is intended to support North American customers specifically. It is assumed that the supplement supersedes the factory booklet where applicable, but this is just an assumption. I write technical articles in my day job, and I tend to try to follow instructions literally at first... and that rarely works, admittedly. There is sufficient ambiguity in all the supplied instructions to cause a customer some confusion. I also have extensive experience in plumbing, gas fitting, and electrical work, so I'm not a novice to these things, but still, I had problems.

Propane fitting: the supplement cautions the customer against trying to adapt any North American plumbing fittings to the supplied British Standard Pipe Taper thread (BSPT) fitting supplied as the fuel input on the HS2211. Packaged separately with the heater is a 90 degree brass fitting for connecting the BSPT input to a 1/4" copper tubing propane supply line, but I don't recall seeing any wording in the supplement explicitly describing what this supplied 90 degree fitting is for; if it's mentioned, it's not clear enough how the 90 degree fitting is to be used. When taken in the context of the warning about BSPT fittings, I was cautious in trying to fit the 90 degree fitting to the heater, and only endeavored to do so after a helpful clarification email from Karl. In my view, caution was justified, since crossthreading/damaging the BSPT fitting on the heater fuel input would have been a catastrophe. It doesn't help that the Propex instructions mention 5/16" copper propane tubing (which fits the compression nut on the supplied BSPT fitting on the heater, but is a size that is rare in North America), the supplement mentions a 1/4" fitting, and the supplement also mentions a possible larger 3/8" fitting on the heater. Which is it?

I'm very happy to help author a revised instruction set that might improve the customer installation experience. I realize these specific problems may be related to me exclusively, but I'd still love a chance to reduce ambiguity in the installation of a great product such as the Propex.

kourt

[westyventures]

I think a single additional line to my 'tips' sheet will help. The nut installed on the heater out of the box is in fact for 5/16" line, and left there primarily as a dust cover. I could make a note of that to be removed and not used, or perhaps better yet ask Propex to remove them, replacing it with a plastic cap.
I should also change the line regarding 3/8" fittings as these are rarely needed. Perhaps just mention 'other size fittings available but use the supplied 1/4". Thanks very much for you input - Propex's documentation hasn't always been precise and clear. I need to speak with them about this.

[dandurston]

Karl,

Any concerns with using a zip tie to secure the end of the exhaust hose as shown in your photo? Does this really not get hot?

Do you think it's a fine idea to use some aluminum foil tape to seal the exhaust hose to the heater body? Quite a few installs show using this tape to seal the larger duct hosing, but I'm wondering if I should seal the smaller intake and exhaust hoses as well for good measure.

Thanks!
Dan

[westyventures]

[candyman]

Not sure if this has been asked, but if you have a syncro and do the occaisional creek crossing, nothing too deep but up to the frame rails, how well will this hold up to that? Is the propex totally sealed or is there a way to make it so?

[westyventures]

[candyman]

[michaelasnider]

How does the heater itself actually mount to the van? I've had one of these in my shopping cart for about a month and a half, just waiting to pull the trigger..

[dandurston]

Michael,

The heater bolts to the bottom of the van using about 6 metal screws. You have to drill these holes in the van, and also in the brackets of the heater if you want holes other than in the supplied spots.

I mostly drilled new holes in the bracket (see thread on Greg's HS2211 install) so the screws would line up with the low points of the wavy metal that forms the van floor.

If you're anywhere near Victoria, BC you can come see mine. It's almost ready except for running the propane line.

[michaelasnider]

[dandurston]

The normal method is just to affix it from below using sheet metal screws, so no access from above to add nuts to bolts.

I ended up using #10 sheet metal screws. I used 1/2" length with a lock washer and flatwasher below the heater and a rubber washer between the heater and the van. You could omit the flatwasher and then 3/8" might work better.

It would be sweet to remove the floor and use actual nuts and bolts, but that's a lot of work and shouldn't be needed. If I'm ever in there anyways I might swap the screws for bolts.

I haven't done the propane yet. It's a bit daunting since I've never bent tubing and seemingly I have to buy a bender. I wonder if I could do only large radius turns and skip the bender?