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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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 Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
I saw your photos in that other thread, Throwing in the towel. You skinned the doors AND the decklid. WOW! :shock:
Nicholas |
Well, Nicholas, I can't say I had much to do with it. The one day my car was in one piece and the next time I went to look at it, it had been cut up as you see it in the photo. The restorer's approach is that the only way to get rid of the rust is to separate the "double-skins" at the welds. I am going to have to go all out as half-measures just don't work, do they?
Is this approach unusual? If it is, I'll have to write it up in more detail with a list of parts I replace and parts I repair and plenty of photos. Since I can't do the work myself - due to lack of skill and lack of equipment - this is going to cost me a pretty penny.
And here's the photo for this thread:
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Is this approach unusual? |
Well it is uncommon. I've only seen it once in a thread here on the samba and it was only done for the deckled. It was a french guy who did a '66 coupe. LaGuep. But his photos were up on an external site and got moved. The thread was fantastic till the photos were lost. John had it up on one of the stickies but had to remove it.
Anyway showing this level of work, I expect your restoration is going to be right up there with Scott Dooan, Lisa Meyer and others. Fantastic!
Nicholas
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'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
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grailoc
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2004
Posts: 1441
Location: FRANCE and now QUEBEC city
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TheFop
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2014
Posts: 302
Location: Auckland - New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Where are the door skins?
Its been a long while since I've skinned a door but I'm not sure if a deck lid will be much different but I expect any ripples in the skin will be worse from removal than they would from putting it back on as re-skinning you can apply the appropriate support to the skin where you need it with your dolly and bend the lip back in several passes.
It may just need a tidy up and excuse my swearing here but a wee skim of filler to take out any imperfections which otherwise would be a pain in the ass to get rid of.
I'm tempted to take this approach on my doors and deck lid too as the frames are quite rusty and need treatment inside and out and several plates to the frames as well as lower skins made up.
You lucky folks in the US appear to be able to get doors and deck lids for peanuts (from what I've seen on Samba classifieds), I had a rough price last week for a single ex US door coming from Aussie that wouldn't have left me much change from $1000.
If someone was willing to send a pallet to NZ with 4 tidy doors and a couple of deck lids you would have friends for life in New Zealand 
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Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dean
I've got new doorskins from Germany, still in their wrapping. I was told it would be cheaper to buy the new skins than to repair the old ones (at $85 an hour).
I'll post a list of the parts I'm going to replace with new instead of trying to repair the old rusted parts of the body. Fact is, I need to get at the rust under the outer skin of the car, and the only way to get there is to "skin" it.
I know it would have been cheaper to buy another car or even to import a rust-free body from Arizona, but I wanted to save THIS CAR. She speaks to me, and as you know, the line between passion and obsession is rather ill-defined.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'll put up the bad news first and then ask for advice on how to progress from here. Some concern has been expressed about the panels that have been cut off being "lined up" accurately when everything has to be put back together again. I'll post a couple of photos in an endeavour to answer that. Then I'll put up a few photos of problem areas and ask for suggestions with regard to their repairs.
First: This is the right rear fender which, as you can see, has been cut and the spot welds drilled out. I think it can be "lined up" by clamping it to the main structure with the spot weld holes on the two parts lined up.
And the same for the left rear panel with the photo taken from the front this time: (There is some good news beyond the fender - the interior appears to be in good condition and no repairs are needed there - the same goes for the front of the cabin - dash, under the dash, etc.)
The right front fender shows a poor repair of accident damage, and there is obvious further damage to the pillar behind it (just in front of the door): The pillar part will have to be replaced. But what about the fender? Is it repairable or should I get the panel from somewhere and weld it in? I'm going to get new rockers for both sides - I'm waiting to hear if anyone has the complete welded together rockers with the elbow section at the front all in one piece - CIP1, KGP&R, anyone?)
I have problems in the rear fender lower areas on both sides: Do I buy the repair panels and weld them in or repair? It seems to me that this may well amount to the same thing but will be easier if I were to buy ready-to-fit panels. (From whom?)
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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DorianL
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2013
Posts: 717
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Wish I could advise… all I can do is bump it up |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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TheFop
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2014
Posts: 302
Location: Auckland - New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
| You have quite a bit of work for yourself. I think I would want the doors on when rewelding in rear wings to make sure they will line up. Luckily the lower rear, inner and outer are available, as are the metal you will need for the section around the torsion covers. Metal repair/replacement is a major part of your resto. Hope you have a lot of patience, vice grips, and clecos. Best of luck to you!! |
Agreed, but I'd go one step further and have all panels back in place before welding to ensure all gaps are right before any metal gets melted.
As I mentioned to you the other day Chris skinning a door isn't too difficult if the skin is good and you appear to have good quality skins, all of the other metal cut off should just pop right back on where it came from, the front wing however I'm not too sure about but it may be salvageable as the 'band aid' someone put on just makes it look worse, there are heaps of useful threads on here showing how to replace each panel.
I've just ordered Cleco pins and some panel clamps for mine from the US....again 1/3 of the price we pay here in NZ including postage, these would probably be good for yours too Chris.
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Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Every now and then the faeces hits the fan. But first, my progress:
I've got the front end sorted out. I put the wheels hubs back on and all I have to do still is to refit the disc brake callipers - with the restoration kit I got from KGP&R in place. Then the wheels.
I may be able to buy a full set - 5 original 4 lug steel wheels with tyres - cheaply. I'll know later this week.
Now the faeces bit: I was showing off today and opened the TMI box to show my wife the new seat covers. Then, horror of horrors, I see that the seat backs' covers are for high-back seats (the ones with the headrests built in for the '68 model year). I had stipulated "low-back" seats when I ordered, and of course, there's a no-return policy in place for special items such as seat covers.
So where to now?
I could try to find high-back seats - not a problem in the USA, but a bit of a bummer here in NZ.
I could order new seat-back covers - should not be too expensive.
I could try to find just the seat backs an fit them to my existing seats - not likely to be successful
The one thing I'm not going to do is to whine and moan about it. As it happens, my car originally had high-back seats, but when I found her, she had low-backs.
Advice, anyone?
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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DorianL
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2013
Posts: 717
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| No return? Was it their goof? |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13958
Location: Southampton U.K.
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
| DorianL wrote: |
| No return? Was it their goof? |
Absolutely...this "no returns policy" does it cover sending out items you haven't ordered? :twisted:
If it does it means they can send you what they like...think you better get onto it Chris. |
No, I think it was a genuine error, and I'm sure I'll be able to sort it out between me, KGP&R and TMI. I'm not into fingerpointing. I was just wondering whether I would be able to find a way to use the existing covers and restore my car to high seat backs - as it was originally.
By the end of my restoration I will have ordered some $8-10k's worth of parts from KGP&R and thus far the service has been excellent. I'm not going to start a fight over two seat covers.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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John Moxon
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13958
Location: Southampton U.K.
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| John Moxon wrote: |
| DorianL wrote: |
| No return? Was it their goof? |
Absolutely...this "no returns policy" does it cover sending out items you haven't ordered? 
If it does it means they can send you what they like...think you better get onto it Chris. |
No, I think it was a genuine error, and I'm sure I'll be able to sort it out between me, KGP&R and TMI. I'm not into fingerpointing. I was just wondering whether I would be able to find a way to use the existing covers and restore my car to high seat backs - as it was originally.
By the end of my restoration I will have ordered some $8-10k's worth of parts from KGP&R and thus far the service has been excellent. I'm not going to start a fight over two seat covers. |
If the covers are for high-back seats and what you really wanted were low-back seats, then perhaps an upholstery shop (or anyone that is talented using a sewing machine) can modify them to work for you.
Seems like you would have an excess of material to work with, so it might be possible. |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| KGCoupe wrote: |
If the covers are for high-back seats and what you really wanted were low-back seats, then perhaps an upholstery shop (or anyone that is talented using a sewing machine) can modify them to work for you.
Seems like you would have an excess of material to work with, so it might be possible. |
NO SURPRISES there, but KGP&R through TJ has offered me a new set free of charge and did so within hours - when the sun came up on their side of the world.
I didn't WANT low-back seats. They came with the car. I would have preferred the high-back seats that were original to the car - and as I had in a 1976 Superbug.
I'm going to explore some possibilities before taking TJ up on his offer. Maybe I can have the covers modified as you suggest - I believe in making the best of a bad situation. Or I could perhaps have the seatbacks modified to accept the covers I now have - the seats may look a bit odd then, maybe, but I'll just have to see.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
| Once you sit in a set of 68 high backs you will appreciate the low backs. There are reasons they were one year only. 8) Good luck. |
Hi Darrel, It's not often that I go against the advice I receive here on The Samba, but I've decided to go with the high back seats that were original for my car. TJ at KGP&R has offered to source them for me and to let me have them at a discount. An elegant solution, I think.
So far as my metal repairs are concerned, I'm going to start with the structural repairs first. For that I need to decide where I'm going to get the rockers from. I believe CIP1 has integrated rockers all welded up together with the elbow thing in front. I'm committed to paying more for parts in order to avoid even greater costs in labour.
If only I could take a crash-course in welding. I'm sure the cost of my own rig would quickly be off-set by the savings in labour.
Does anyone know where I could find a replacement for this front fender? ('68 RHD with fuel cap in the fender) The German NOS piece costs 2200 Euro!!!!
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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TheFop
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2014
Posts: 302
Location: Auckland - New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
Hi Darrel, It's not often that I go against the advice I receive here on The Samba, but I've decided to go with the high back seats that were original for my car. TJ at KGP&R has offered to source them for me and to let me have them at a discount. An elegant solution, I think.
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Would Beetle seats fit with runner mods or preferably the bases swapped? this auction came up a little more local, so shipping would be cheaper...not sure if they are the exact right type backs though but look right from the photos I've seen of 68's
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/volkswagen/auction-722995226.htm
I just ordered my new heater channels and rockers from CIP $900 for parts and $330 for shipping.....then there is the $266 tax when it gets here.....ouch
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Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car |
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Karly
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2002
Posts: 641
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:13 am Post subject: |
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You guys should have shared a cip1 shipping! I tend to try and go in with someone when ordering stuff from the states so shipping works out a bit cheaper... I guess when you are ordering body sections its not going to matter much.
KGPR may have the fenders you need but shipping will be a killer  if only it were cheaper to get from Australia I could suggest some places but I think shipping costs here will be just as bad because it seems insanely expensive to transfer anything between Oz and NZ! With all these bits and pieces it would probably be cheaper to ship a parts car from the States!
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1960 Beetle ''Heidi" daily driver
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Good luck.