empi cv joints

[69sunroof]

been a member for awhile now,use the site to gather information, but never posted before. I have one of the empi 15 5/8 axle kits with type 2 cv joints. I see mostly they say 17 or 18 degrees of angle on type 2 cvs. Are these their race prepped cvs ? will they take more angle ? when you figure angle, is that maximum constant angle ? Or max angle period ?

[Vanapplebomb]

They are their generic 100mm cv joints, basically the same things as the busses had.

17 is considered to be their safe working angle. I have seen people approach twenty on the generic EMPI cv joints, and they seem to hold up fine, but I personally would not recommend it. Keep it to 17, and you shouldn't have any problems. If you wan't to push the limits, you would probably be farther ahead buying the off road type 2 cv joints. Selling the generic ones will pay for part of the cost of the off road ones.

Both the off road and generic 100mm cv joints from EMPI are good stuff. Just keep them within their articulation limits.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[dfunkesq]

930 cv joints can do 21 degrees. They put them on the Porsche turbo 911 probably the best you can get, I found a set on ebay for $135 brand new German made.

[Vanapplebomb]

930's can do more than that buddy.

That being said, with an otherwise stock suspension, the point of diminishing returns creeps up fast. In my opinion, 930cv joints are not worth the cost of the conversion. Sure you can squeeze a little more out with them, but you really won't notice.

How many cv joints are in this "set" you are talking about? If it is 4, you should snap them up. That is a good deal regardless of what brand they are.


Just a note: Every now and then, someone will break a cv joint when off roading. I have not seen any more failures of EMPI cv joints than I have seen with the more expensive Lobro/GKN cv joints.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Is it just me or didn't it sound like the OP wasn't sure of what type EMPI he has? Although I'm not sure how we would be able to tell him with out a pic or part number.
I'm interested because I will be buying some very soon myself. I see EMPI lists their 'race-prepped' off road kits to be able to handle 25*. Reason tells me to doubt this, but why would they take a chance?

Any average CV with a type 2 design is going to be 17* from what I've read.

From zenseeker.net:

CV Max Angle Splines
Type 1 12 33
Type 2 17 33
Type 4 22 33
930 25 28
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Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[dfunkesq]

I only said 21 degrees because that is what I had read some where, so I used that number to figure out the maximum amount of suspension, ya know one of them sine, cosine things don't remember which. OO yeah as soon as I seen the price I got them it was a set of 4 still in the packaging. I am just waiting to start building on my new pan. Can't wait gonna be a fun project. Just checked,the same ones was not there put there is a set of 4 current bid is $125 right now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-German-930-Porsche-Tur...mp;vxp=mtr

[69sunroof]

ORANGECRUSHer was right I didnt know which cvs I had Sometimes my brain needs a kickstart, so I go out and find they are # 98-5084-B which is their off road cv joints with chromoly cages I like that ! Does this mean I can go up to 25 degrees ? looking for the most travel i can get whith the parts i got
69 pan 0x2 boxed arms 002 trans on 10 degree mount have SAW 2.0 air shocks

[77charger]

I am using the empi off road on my buggy right now on one side of the car the other side are german type 4s.Money was short and i got them cheap form neighbor who went 930s and 2 of the 4 germans were still good.

Anyhow they say the empis can take 25 IMO thats pushing it im at 21 on the limit straps with stretch they probably hit 23 degrees shortly.I havent heard any noise from them and have jacked up my buggy and spun wheels slowly to feel for binding.The type 4s have had no probs either just a bad grease deal(lucas) that killed 2 cv stars very quickly as in 3 trips.I have changed to swepco and its working well.The german type 4s i polished the stars to help out with angles.
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[ORANGECRUSHer]

^ that's good info.
I find it really interesting how many testaments there are to using certain grease in these CVs. Usually I go with something like Valvoline's Synthetic brake grease, but in this case I'll have to figure out where I can find that sweepco.
I think despite the 25* claim I would also set up like above, erring on the side of caution a bit. You're still getting more than you would out of the standard Type2.
I just gotta figure out where to measure my axle length and then I'm ordering some.
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Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[77charger]

[69sunroof]

Went ahead and notched plates and trimmed stops. As it sits now, axles are at 25* and I have 11 inches of travel, not too bad. When I get the body on I will strap them at 23*, we will see how they hold up. Things are always subject to change. I started with stock arms, boxed them in, painted them, put in new bearings, and mounted them up. Before I got any farther, I came across a pair of 0 x 2 arms for free, so I went back and changed everything. Twice the fun !!

[joescoolcustoms]

I am in the process of building a mild off road buggy that will get driven across the US and back in July. I am looking at long term wear of CV's and looking for feedback on how well the EMPI's respond to extended use at low axle angle.

I have Used Type I CV's
I have Used Thing CV's
I have Used Type II CV's
and I have new Lobro 930's I bought before they went out of sight, ($ 45 each).

I would like to save the Used units I have for projects that stay close to home and buy new for the trip across the US. The CV's will get 6500 miles on them in three weeks, so, I do not want to have them wear out on the highway. I am guessing around 10* to 12* for the extended trip.

I do not want to run the 930's due to the weight on the carrier bearings of a Type I transaxle.

Any input on the EMPI's for this extended use is appreciated.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[Vanapplebomb]

[Vanapplebomb]

The EMPI type 1 cv joints would be plenty good. You can buy their complete half shafts on ebay for really good prices. Just watch the rubber boots. They are the weak link. Run then until they split, then replace them with better ones.

If you are set up for 100mm cv joints, you can get EMPIs 90-6905 half shaft. This has 100mm cv joints with 16 1/8in axles for type 1 transmissions and trailing arms. Look around ebay. You can get them shipped to your front door for 60-70 bucks. Don't bother with higher priced units with the same part number. They are exactly the same whether they are 60 bucks or 120.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[joescoolcustoms]

This is for my Manx II and when I built the transaxle, I put in a nos Crown super diff, 10 tooth spiders and the non-undercut spline side gears, 4.12 R&P, 0.82 fourth, new syncro's and Thing flanges on a SSC case.

The trailing arms are original Thing units (raised lower shock mount) that Bugzilla lengthened 1 1/2 inches. They have the original Thing axle stubs. I have adjustable spring plate that will get notched for a little extra travel. I will measure the axle length before buying anything, but expecting to have to get a custom length.

I would rather run Thing CV's over Type II, but all I have are used units and would like to start the journey out with new units.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[Vanapplebomb]

Sounds like you are in the market for EMPI "off road" type 2 cv joints. They are good for 25 degrees of articulation, and come out of the box with chromoly cages. Your looking at 45-50 bucks per cv joint, but it is well worth the cost. They are, in my opinion, one of the best bargains for off road VWs. You will need to measure how long your axles need to be. SwayAway and EMPI both make good aftermarket axles.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Multi69s]

The main thing to check with any CV joint is axle movement at full droop and compression. Checking the compression measurement is rather difficult unless you are using coil overs, so you generally use the data from full droop to use for compression. Jack the car up so that the suspension is unloaded and at full droop. Then grab the axle and see if it will plunge in and out between the wheel and transmission. If it is locked solid, you have exceeded the angle of the CV joint and you WILL break the cage, leaving you stranded. I know that new CVs can be a little tight, but they should still allow the axle to plunge. For most setups this is the most critical, because we usually get more travel from the droop side of the arc then the compression side. In most cases the tire will hit the fenders before we get the same amount compression travel.
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69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
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AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[joescoolcustoms]

Thanks for the tips guys!

I will be building the Manx tube chassis on a jig, so the torsion bars will be one of the last items to go in. This will allow me to articulate the rear suspension with out tension so I can check both axle length and max angle for proper CV use.

Those races T II's sound like a good deal and very well may be my approach. I want to save my 930's for a serious off roader project.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[race-desert]

[Multi69s]

RD

You are correct, having an axle that is to short can put unwanted side loads on the CV when at full droop. That is why it is critical to get the right length axles for your trailing arm / transmission setup. That is also why the aftermarket axles have a longer splined area (about double), it gives you a little more leeway on getting the correct axle length.

Sway Away has an excellent tutorial on finding the correct axle length for most applications.

http://www.swayaway.com/TechRoom_VWguides.php
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=