Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build

nmerrill · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:27 am Post subject:

I've read some about the input shaft spline engagement issue.
Seems the combination I have gets a pretty good engagement:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

That shiny area along the face of that one spline on the top of the shaft is very clear evidence of contact - and shows around the entire shaft.
Seems like I have very good overlap between the shaft and the clutch disc.

I'm leaning towards re-installing this clutch set up as is. I see that I can still read numbers on the friction surface -

nmerrill · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:04 am Post subject:

Looks like I got a working combination for the timing belt.
The TB137 (151 tooth) was way too long.

I swapped the roller (74mm) for a 68.7 mm roller that is stock NF, and the stock 20V TB197 147 tooth belt *just* slipped on.

Onward!

SyncroGhia · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject:

Will that setup tighten up ok?

Most people who I've seen building a 2.6 20V have had to make up their own setup adding a tensioner in somewhere and then using an adjusting pulley on the camshaft to get the timing right.

MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD

nmerrill · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject:

Guessing that is for a eurovan "tall block" - smaller bore, taller block by 16 ish mm...

This block is only slightly taller than the 7A/3B blocks.

Yes, the belt passes the twist test, and has a little room left on the water pump adjustment.

nmerrill · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:11 am Post subject:

well, a bit of a set back - my power steering solution is no solution at all.

Turns out with the pump in that -lower than stock- position, the belt, when tight, interferes with the bump in the timing belt cover over the water pump pulley - it's actually quite close to the water pump pulley it self.

I've figured a way to mount the PS pump on the other side of the engine using a factory AC pump mount. That would require custom PS lines, which aren't that big of a deal.

I'm also considering (again) of going full serpentine with all the AAN parts - including Timing belt set up, and serp belt bits. One bonus of this set up is that that alt is mounted a good 3-4 inches higher. The low placement of the alt on the NF brackets was always something that bothered me a bit.
Down side, is $$ to get all the bits for the AAN.
The other issue is this SA block does not have some of the holes drilled on the face of the block to mount the TB tensioner, and one of the bosses on the block for the PS bracket does not exist. Drilling the block by hand on the stand would be a challenge!

For some reason the full AAN serp belt system is alluring... it's more modern/sexy, but it's not anymore functional.

SyncroGhia · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:52 am Post subject:

There are a few 5 cylinder engines that share the same parts as the AAN. The AAT and AEL 2.5TDi engines.

I know that the AAT and AEL didn't officially come to America but I'm sure that there will be some others as well.

MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD

nmerrill · Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:12 am Post subject:

I managed to set up my PS pump on the other side of the engine using an AC pump mount...

But, then- I collected most of the AAN serpentine belt and Timing belt bits locally!

As I mentioned before, the Alt mount for the AAN puts the Alt much higher on the engine - I like it that way!

A partial install shows that the AAN brackets should work with this block.
The Alt/AC mount bosses are all present on the block (5 of them!).
There is one boss for the top bolt of the PS bracket that is not present:

I should be able to make a little bracket to pick that point up easily using the hole already in the face of the block.

I'll delete the viscous fan clutch too.

I will need to drill holes for the Timing belt tensioner in the face of the block as well.
BTW, to go serpentine belt for accessories, I must go to the separate tensioner for the TB as well since the water pump for the other styles has that bump on it's pulley which would interfere with the tensioner for the serpentine belt.

If this all works out, I'll be in the market for the Aluminum version of the PS bracket - this one is Cast iron, and heavy! I think a few in the US were alum., but perhaps most in europe (AAT AAN) were Aluminum?

I also made some more progress on the trans front.

Found a cheap way to extract the bushing on the Clutch lever shaft!

A tiny bend to the tips of the expansion bolt, and it grabbed the bushing perfectly! $2.79

nmerrill · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:43 am Post subject:

Some progress...

New trans is all back together, and now epoxy primed...

As I mentioned, I've ended up going full AAN serpentine belt for accessories, and that means that the timing belt must go to the AAN tension set up also.

As can be seen in earlier pics of the front of the block, the holes to mount the TB tensioner are not there. So, I had to drill them.

I had a serious "OH Fu@#" moment on the second hole on the top right.
As I was drilling along, all of a sudden the drill began behaving like it had broken though the other side... Shocked

It's OK though - I looked through the hole, and didn't see a piston! Wink

So I plugged it up.
Turns out I had hit a coolant passage. A close look at some AAN pictures revealed that I had drilled a little to far to the left...
You can see my plug in the pic below

Got the tensioner all mounted up.

Then I found that the lower Timing belt cover from the AAN does not bolt to the oil pump I'm running - and since I'm not changing oil pumps to the AAN unit, I'll need to make a little bracket for the lower cover to mount.

I also had made a bracket that picked up the top of the power steering pump (where the boss on the block is missing), but then found that my new bracket interfered with the TB tensioner since I had used the hole in the face of the block to mount it.
I'm in the process of a new bracket for the PS that takes care of another problem also - this block is also apparently missing the boss to screw the rear timing belt cover too.

I'm excited to finally be at the point where I can put the trans on the engine, and think about putting it all back in the van!
I'm ready to move on to new things to work on, though engine part "legos" is fun in it own way...

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject:

I'm a little surprised they opted to use 6mm bolts for the tensioner, instead of 8mm. Keep updating us with your progress. I loves the fivers.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

nmerrill · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject:

you know, I thought the same thing. Particularly when they are only 10 mm deep of threads.
I considered enlarging them, but I suppose it works as designed.

CdnVWJunkie · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:30 am Post subject:

silverbulletuk · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:11 am Post subject:

Hi there. Back up the page you said that your clutch spline engagement looked ok. Do you by any chance have a photo of the friction plate centre boss?
I ended up having my 240mm SA clutch refurbished with new linings because I couldn't identify the correct Audi quattro clutch to replace the 22S part here in the UK.
SA buses are great but a total PITA when it comes to spares and service items...
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

nmerrill · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:17 am Post subject:

nmerrill · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:53 am Post subject:

This is the only close up I have, and none from the other side. I'll get one this weekend.

From my research, the clutch I have that was installed with the NF engine, and SA bell housing, is the clutch from the MC1 - In the states, that would be the 5000 and 200 up to 89, or 90 I believe.

silverbulletuk · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:17 am Post subject:

Thanks. That looks very similar to the flywheel side of the SA plate, i.e. almost completely flat. The transmission side has a long boss that stands out about 5/8", maybe a bit more:

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/IanHolman/SA%20bumpers/20140525_151309_zpsugcsddek.jpg

I thought that I bought a MC clutch kit made by LUK, but the centre spline hub was far too short to have been safe to use:

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/IanHolman/SA%20bumpers/20140530_172425_zpsmlmwpp2s.jpg

PS the LUK disc had about the same amount of spline boss protruding from each side of the disc, not biased toward the transmission like the SA one.
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

nmerrill · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject:

Here are a few pics of the disc that I took out of my van:

The engine side is 11 mm tall.
The trans side is about 3.5mm.

I'm not sure what to make of that. The evidence of contact on the shaft (pictured above) is pretty clear, and shows plenty of contact.

So what is different?

silverbulletuk · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:51 am Post subject:

All very strange. Must be some difference in the input shaft spline length? The long boss and damping spring assembly in the centre is definitely toward the transmission, the flywheel side is dead flat.

When I renewed the clutch, the clutch housing was only about 10-12mm from the engine block before the splines engaged, using the LUK Audi clutch.

The transmission went back in far too easily and I knew that this couldn't be right, so I had the friction linings renewed, which cost about £30 sterling!!!

With the 22S disc, re-installation was the familiar fight, a reassuring struggle.
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

nmerrill · Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:17 am Post subject:

I've finally got the engine off the rack, and put the flywheel in place to take some measurements.
The splines start about 26 mm from the face of the SA clutch housing.
The face of the female splines on the clutch disk begin approximately 43 mm from the face of the block, with the disk touching the FW.

As far as I can see, it turns out this setup only has about 17mm of overlap of input shaft to splines on the friction disc.

I can't explain why the input shaft appears to have fresh wear marks so far down the length, except perhaps that is left over from the 2.1?

I should take some measurements of the NF engine/flywheel to check if it's the same, but I would be very surprised if it was different.

So, it seems I was running with about 17mm of spline engagement for 50K miles....

everything looks fine.

Now I need to track down an SA clutch!

nmerrill · Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:40 pm Post subject:


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build
Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9 ... 11, 12, 13 Next Jump to:

	Forum Index -> Vanagon	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9 ... 11, 12, 13 Next Jump to:
Page 8 of 13