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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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 Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| nmerrill wrote: |
| SyncroGhia wrote: |
MC is good. I've used that before as well although the splines engagement is not as much as the 22S part but it is enough. I've run almost 300ftlbs through one like that.
MG |
MG,
just wanted to clarify what you said here.
You've used the MC1 clutch that looks like the pictures in this thread without problem, despite the limited spline overlap, for a high torque TDI ( I presume)?
I had 50K miles on that set up with out any obvious damage/wear, but somehow still feel compelled to get the "right" clutch... |
Sorry for the delay in getting back to this. Too much going on!
Ok yes, I have used an MC centre plate (friction plate) in Limey for 5 years (the total time that I had the 2.5TDi installed) which does not give the full engagement of splines but from memory, it gives around 11mm of the splines.
In that time, Limey went through 6 gearbox rebuilds, various state of engine tune up to around 175-180bhp and 300ftlbs and the only time I felt it slip a little was when I was trying to pull a 10 ton + rubbish truck out of the mud and was a bit gentle on clutch take up. I felt it slip a little and then backed out of the pull. I was then more vigorous with the clutch and span all 4 wheels (van dancing around!) but I failed to pull the truck out... can't think why  This was all done in G gear.
Here's a photo I tool of the centre plate back then as I wanted to be able to have a spare to hand just in case it let go. It never did!
I always put a small amount of very thick grease on the splines and associated moving parts when installing the gearbox and you can see the witness mark in the splines of the centre plate as to how far the input shaft engaged.
The South African centre plate (part number 22S141031A) has a centre collar that extends more towards the gearbox but, is only available from South Africa.
I hope that this all helps 
MG
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:25 am Post subject: |
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MG, thanks for the detail!
I guess I won't worry about the spline engagement with my tiny gas engine.
MC1 clutch it is.
Unfortunately, my time for my van is limited... need to start working on the bikes for our summer motorcycle camping trip out west!!!  |
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Hey Y'all!
Anyone remember this project? It's not dead, and if you are still inclined, here's some more for you!
OK then! Amazing how time passes...
After spending 2 months (glorious) on motorcycles traveling and camping with my wife this summer, and the entire Fall doing I'm not sure what (work/life), I've finally gotten back to this project!
The engine is basically built - I don't seem to have any pics handy, but it now sports a complete AAN accessory and timing belt system. I even scored an all aluminum PS/Alt bracket.
despite needing to button it up (valve cover sealed, Distributor installed, etc.) I felt it was time for a little proof of concept - time to put 'er in place!
First, after installing the clutch, I checked the spline contact patch -
Looks to be about 17mm - that will have to do!
Lookin' Good!
I noticed that the flywheel timing mark and the hole in the bell housing do not appear to correctly line up...
here, the line is lined up on the bell housing tab...
But, the pulley wheel disagrees:
Since this is apparently the flywheel and bell housing from the SA engines, I'm not sure what to make of that...
could the bolt pattern on the crank be different? I need to look closer to make sure something is not wrong!
Now we are talking!
A little tight on the exhaust manifold side, but I have the OE aluminum heat shield for this manifold.
This is a potential problem though. The bag-of-snakes sits rather tall, and gets pretty close here:
I could move that electrical box though. It does have me wondering if going with the regular Audi 7A cast manifold wouldn't be better. Not nearly as cool, but I wonder if the B-O-S is going to make much difference in power at the RPMs this engine is going to see.
Anyone have any thoughts on that?
With the same mount set up as the previous engine, with 1 in. lowering spacers that the SA engine bar mounts too, things look good!
these are the spacers I'm talking about: the yellow shock it pointing right at it..
I'll most likely take the throttle cable bracket off the top of the intake, and bring the cable up from below, possibly with a small pulley to redirect the angle to close to stock.
Removing the cable from the top should gain me at least an inch more clearance to the deck lid.
Which leads me to wonder if I could eliminate the 1 in spacers from the engine bar and gain 1 in in ground clearance. This engine bar is a 2WD unit, I think, and the syncro engine sits lower stock, which is why those spacers are there in the first place, if I recall correctly.
I currently have 9.5 inches, If I recall correctly, from the top of the bell housing, to the metal lip of the engine bay.
Wasn't there a big "engine height survey" or something at some point on the syncro list? Need to go looking.
MG, if your here, am I correct that you are not using any lowering spacer with your 5 cylinder engine bars?
A little thinking ahead here.... that could work...
a few things I need to look into:
Do I need a restrictor in the PCV line from block to the throttle body? The 7A has a 1mm restrictor in a similar place, but others (NF/NG) have none...
What's up with that timing mark on the FW?
Wondering what spark plug to run! I suppose the Audi 7A spec is the one to use
What coolant bottle set up to use... stay stock with both bottles, as my NF did, convert over to another unit (passat?) for the primary bottle, and keep the overflow unit..
Or, go single expansion tank? Leaning towards staying with the stock set up.
Lastly, and importantly, I'm considering dropping the 034EFI unit I have, and going with a VEMS ECU. 034 seems to be lagging in the updates and development...
AND, the VEMS North America shop is local to me. They also have a AWD dyno, and of course do VEMS tunings....
Ok, that's all I've got just now.
Stay tuned! |
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silverbulletuk
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Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 206
Location: NW Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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FWIW, the crank damper pulleys are known to become un-bonded and slip, so the timing marks are no longer valid. My 2.6 has shifted almost 180 degrees, at first I thought that the pulley had been refitted wrongly, but of course the bolts are unevenly pitched so it's not possible... I had to guess the ignition timing!
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1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Yea thanks, I'm aware of that problem.
However, this is different - the cam shaft and cam pulley marks, and crank pulley mark (aligned against timing belt cover) all agreed with TDC checked though #1 spark plug hole.
The fly wheel only bolts on in one place too, right?
I didn't think the marks were off enough to be a whole bolt hole indexed..
When I drop the engine out tonight to button things up I'll have to look closer! |
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silverbulletuk
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Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 206
Location: NW Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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I was sure that you knew that, but sometimes it's good to double-check
I'll admit that I didn't compare my SA flywheel to the 7A part that came with my engine, there wasn't the opportunity.
It's quite possible that the window in the bellhousing is in a different place, iirc the 7A double flywheel trigger needs a cutout in the SA bellhousing to fit, if it's being used.
I haven't looked at my box of parts for a while now 
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1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com |
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Looking great
First thing is that I would remove the brackets that are only tack welded on and copy the South African setup of welding tubes into the chassis and running bolts through.
I've found out that trying to use just the lower section of the chassis rails to mount an engine to will make them flex and crack the attached sheet metal.
Re TDC mark, I'd just remove a spark plug and put something down onto the top of the piston and use that to work out which is accurate. The flywheel can only be fitted in one position.
I'm not convinced that either of the breather holes in the SA bellhousing are meant for TDC accurate points as there is no 'pointer' like in the T3 Diesel bellhousing which has a very obvious pointer.
MG
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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MG, I agree- I'm going to through bolt the frame rail.
It looks like in that pic you do have a spacer to lower the engine cradle for the syncro?
Well, I checked out my timing again, and the only thing that does not line up is the mark on the fly wheel, and the hole in the SA bell housing.
I guess I can make another mark.
Oddly, I don't recall if I ever used the flywheel timing mark with the previous install (NF).
Sillverbulletuk, I'm using the SA Fly wheel so I assumed it would line up. Might need to ask some SA folks what they know!
The hole in my SA bell housing does have a small "shelf" that I assumed was a timing mark, but it's not particularly good if it is. |
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Yes I ran spacers but didn't get the height correct and had to lower the gearbox also to get the Syncro propshaft uj angles correct.
You don't have that issue so I'd just use enough spacers to keep the engine under the standard engine lid.
MG
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silverbulletuk
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 206
Location: NW Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:28 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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IIRC the notch inside the SA bell side window is machined, not merely as-cast, suggesting it to be an accurate ignition timing mark on the flywheel and not a TDC mark.
There is a lot of knowledge here, a very easy-going forum and they speak English for the most part  They helped me out when I had a load of loom problems with my Microbus
http://www.syncrosa.co.za/forum/
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1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com |
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Well, here are a few photos from some previous work that I never posted...
Back on Page 6 I showed how the 7A coolant outlet from the head interfered with the AAN intake manifold...
I eventually came up with this:
I also added a bleeder nipple for the line to the coolant tank.
On page 8 I mentioned that I needed to make a bracket to pick up one of the mounting points for the AAN accessory bracket since the SA block did not have it....
Here's a shot of the completed accessory system - all AAN, which fit the SA block with only a few minor mods/tweaks.
Recently I've been working on brackets to mount the audi 7A bag-o-snakes header's heat shield which originally mounted to the intake manifold (which I'm not using)
I took advantage of a few pre-tapped holes in the head, and added a few holes myself to bosses that were already there. The front bracket is at the welders now, finished pics later!
I also needed to add an outlet to the intake for the Vacuum brake assist - seemed like a good spot.
I think I'm getting close to being ready to finally torque everything, and bolt it in place so I can start on the plumbing, and electrical....
Stay tuned.... |
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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Kombi///M3
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Joined: March 16, 2011
Posts: 427
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Wow!! That's a monster! Great work!
How much does the engine hangs compare to
Wbx? I meant the clearance bottom engine to the ground.
Cheers. |
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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| Kombi///M3 wrote: |
Wow!! That's a monster! Great work!
How much does the engine hangs compare to
Wbx? I meant the clearance bottom engine to the ground.
Cheers. |
I can't say really- it's been a long time since there was a WBX there. Bottom of the oil pan is about level with the bottom of the trans - though, the engine is longer, so the crank pulley is farther back, which contributes to it feeling like it is lower hanging. |
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ALIKA T3
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IdahoDoug
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Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Wow - great project. I'm so fired up you are keeping the bag o'snakes - one of the signature features on this engine. Kind of a shame to cover them up with that heat shield, actually.
So, coming into this late but did you get the timing issue sorted? I have a 7A and I also have the factory service manual. When I did my timing belt service, I used the flywheel mark and the housing mark and may be able to shed some light. However, you said you have a different flywheel on, so not sure what will match or line up. Let me know if I can be of service on that issue.
I also switched the injectors to the 034's and the resister harness, and additionally have a few bits laying around here and there for the 7A if anything proves useful to you. I'd also be interested in whatever bits you end up not using if it comes to anything.
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Thanks y'all!
Re- timing mark. After staring at this a while, and convinced everything was correct, I took a wire brush to the FW and found a faint "0" timing mark that was put there by the guy who installed my first 5 cylinder (using this SA FW).
His mark was in the same spot that I had tentatively marked the FW looking through the view hole in the bell housing with everything at TDC.
So, we apparently both came to the same conclusion - I still don't know the root of the mismatch, but the FW doesn't care, and I won't be using any FW reference sender, so I'm going to leave it as is.
Re- Injectors. Doug, since I'm using the AAN intake mani. I can use the red Bosch injectors anyway (seen in earlier pics).
Yes, covering the B.O.S. header is a bummer, but I think the heat shield is worth keeping. I'm actually still contemplating going with the Cast manifold since the B.O.S header comes quite close to the electrical box at the front left of the engine bay.
The cast mani would take up much less space... And be completely LAME!
A few little details completed...
Noxudol 1100 coated a few bits...
Really liking this product! Makes a really tough rubbery coating.
Welded heat shield bracket - hope I end up using it!
Checking out the Snub mount situation.... decided to leave this alone until I'm sure the engine won't be moving. Had to cut the tip off the mount anyway.
I have a nice motor mount from another engine that has a heat shield incorporated into it, but it uses different block bosses - this block had the bosses, but they had not been machined, or drilled, so I decided to go the easy route - heat shield for the starter since the exhaust runs pretty close..
Lots of staring, head scratching, and little details worked out in my head...
parts slowly rolling in...
Hope to bolt the engine in this week, and leave it there for a while!
Still moving forward... |
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nmerrill
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Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Anyone watching, I'm potentially in the market for a new 5 cylinder engine carrier - the OE SA one.
The one I've got is a little tweeked, and well, just not OE.
seen any? |
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nmerrill
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Joined: January 07, 2014
Posts: 388
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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Okay, a little catch up from the last few weeks....
Made lots of progress on all the little details which take so much time!
First, I did what Mikey told me...
Working out the fuel delivery...
Original AAN lines to fuel rail... These lines are actually rubber over nylon fuel lines, but I still didn't want to trust them, so...
I ran a new metal line from fuel filter area to the bay...
My fuel pump was already moved here in the previous iteration.
I covered the new metal line with rubber, just because..
A tight spot to put on a flare...
Nope, didn't forget the flare fitting this time!
The fuel rail hard lines needed some manual massaging to point the right direction... but looks like it will work out well.
Next up was the fuel pump mount, and re-location of the fuel filter...
Picked up a nice new pump mount
Stole some stainless braid from some Audi pipes I had scavenged from the Junk yard...
Decided I wanted the filter mount to have 2 mounting points, so I cannibalized another bracket I had
All the little details worked out...
Next up, air intake...
got a few bits in the mail and got to work..
About this time I remembered that I needed to do something for the idle air supply...Hmmm
After a little frustration...
No, it's not too pretty, but solid anyway. First try actually was a bust - could not get the braze to stick to the stainless, and it got ugly. This second try I went with regular silver bearing solder. I figured it was plenty strong after it survived my filing the inside nipple flush by hand with a round rasp.
And finally...
Next up, cooling system...
A few rivnuts,and it fit real nice...(see picture above)
Used one silicone reducing 45 to drop from the coolant tank to the heater lines, and the silicone straight 1" to 5/8" reducer for the inlet to the block at the water pump
Another reducing 45 was used at the outlet in the rear of the head, dropping towards the top right of the trany
Realized my earlier decision was actually somewhat problematic...
Ok, fine.
More to come... |
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Introduction / 2.6L I5 engine build |
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I imagine this has been asked and answered but FWIW, that bag o snakes (wires at junction) looks to be too close to exhaust. On my swap, harness wire loom started to melt and it was further away from the exhaust. It got moved ASAP. I routed all wires on other side of engine. But then an ABA has more room in a Vanagon engine bay.
Great pics and documenting.
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