Black Fastback Build Thread

[Clatter]

Thanks for the kind thoughts, guys..

I always try to only worry about things I can actually do something about.
If you can't do anything about something, there's no sense in fretting about it.
(Easier said than done, right?)

Speaking of something I can do something about...


Here's where we are at:
The dark gray is epoxy, the light grey is high-build.
A bunch of thick high-build is off-gassing..
We need stuff to go on thick, then shrink down over a few weeks (months?)

The final pan and body are on the spare roller suspension.
All of the pan-to-body bolts are tight, a sacrificial pan seal is in place,
and the car is 'floating' on the suspension.
This gives us our final location of everything, and a chance to final fit the panels.

We decided to move forward with panel fits for a few reasons:
1. We (Dave) was getting sick of doing inner fenders and pillars and things that don't show.
2. The roller suspension is in the way of the inner fenders, and getting grease on stuff.
3. It's a lot easier to do sanding and work on the shell when it's up on the cart.
4. Filler and high-build needs to off-gas.

Some of this looks just killer once it's got some high-build on it.
Most of this stuff is one hand scuff of 320 away from final epoxy!

Super straight where once there was accident damage:
(And repair damage )

The old seat release levers have been erased away...
Sill edges now cut in and fit..

This was a PITA inside the spare wheel area.
Much easier to do up on the cart!

Yesterday Dave spent a day fitting the driver's rear fender.
His work has been exceptional.

Only this area right here should need any filler.

I spent the whole day today getting these splash pans into the front fenders.
(Yeah, I was moving a bit slow)
These were a PITA from all of my old patches and rust repairs and my temper and...

Action shot:

Ground and sanded, these are ready for final hammer/dolly and fitting..

Getting these mount tabs into place has proven a challenge.
I finally just welded the holes in the rockers up,
So the final location will be determined by the gaps/fit.


Doesn't look like a couple of weeks' work,
But it is..
Dave is a warrior, flailing away at these trivialities for hours, while I'm usually away at work!


On and on and on and on... it's some real progress, even if it doesn't look like it!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Brent]

[Clatter]

Check out the big brain on Brent!!

Damn, dude, you got x-ray vision or something;
You were reading my mind yesterday, weren't you?!?

That bolt at the bottom rear of the front fender is a real head-scratcher.
It had these odd spiral wood/metal not-quite-a-machine-screws in it.
They just threaded up into the sheet-metal of the bottom-front of the rocker..
(I'll get pics tomorrow)

I was perplexed enough by there not being a captive nut,
that I had to go and open up another same scrap section I had.
(Yes, I honestly had a lower A-pillar/rocker section in my junk collection)
My scrap was from a '66, and sure enough, it had NO captive nut!
That stupid lower rear fender bolt just seems to screw up into the sheetmetal like an, er, sheetmetal screw!

Makes me want to cut it open and weld a captive nut up in there.
And, like you brilliantly thought of, make a hole instead of a slot for it..

Man, you got some time to think about these things, eh?
Four years+ gives a guy some focus!

Depending upon how it goes will determine how goes it with the paint plan.
Dave might stay, or leave, sooner or later, depending upon how he feels.
I've been running thin on family time lately, too, so it's hard to say.

My hope is that we can get the hammer/dolly work done on the fenders, and get them fitted to the car in the next few days.

The doors are oil-canning pretty bad, and neither Dave, nor myself, can seem to get them to behave with the shrinking disk.
They might have gotten the Brooke Sand-Warp treatment, and I didn't really notice until now?
I *might* be able to nut them if I had a whole weekend, I'm thinkin'..


Anyways,
If I can get the final hang on removeables, hammer/dollied out, in the next days or week, I'll be pretty stoked.
The plan is to then slather mud and/or high-build pretty heavy, with only a rough sand, maybe just 36 and 80.. Or even not at all.
Then, Dave can go home for a while, and I can be a good father/husband,
And the car can sit and off-gas/shrink for a few weeks in the dry garage...

Dave has a car deal he is supposed to be returning here for,
So maybe after a few weeks rest, and some homework,
The both of us will have a more clear picture about what needs to happen.


I spent today digging up all of the latches/strikers, and sacrificial seals, for the doors, hood, and frunk.
We're going to adjust all gaps/fits, and spread mud over the entire car, as assembled(!)
Gary George says it's the only way to get fits 100% - with the seals in place.
We will block-sand filler with 36-grit on a long board across the panels;
The doors will be Bondoed shut, and the fenders Bondoed to the car!
(To be removed once fit is final, of course)
Say what you want, but I was there staring at a '49 Olds fastback he did, and it was dead nuts 100% straight the whole way down.
He said that was how he did it, and I believe.



Honestly,
The amount of work and hours required here is really overwhelming both of us.
Days and days go by, and it just seems to get bigger and bigger the more we chew on it!
It also doesn't help that neither of us are actually trained bodymen, and are both facing some pretty challenging fit issues here.
Being at the low part of the learning curve sucks.
A black car, in a wreck, with rust patches, pieced together from different cars, and warped by a sandblaster!
What could go wrong??



There are probably five really nice pro paint booths within one mile of my house.
Right now is seems like we still might get things blocked flat and hauled to the booth just for shooting only.
Most likely at Ken's on Brommer?
It's not inconceivable that we might just create some type of home-made booth here on-site.
Dave was saying he wanted to go for that.
But,
it's also quite possible that I'll just have the thing flat-bedded down to J&J...

Time will tell...
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[glutenfree]

The cost of renting a pro booth over the cost and hassle of a diy backyard booth is well worth it imo. I worked at a body shop after my time in the Navy and I tell ya, there is nothing like a quality booth, especially if it is downdraft. Not to mention you are spraying black. Only worse could be white, so at least you have that going for ya.

I second the notion for doing your bodywork with seals in place.I have been trying to catch up on this long ass thread when I have spare time...every time I come back there is always something new going on so it makes reviewing a bit difficult, lol

Keep up the bodacious work mate!
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1971 Fastback Build
VW/Type 3 Parts for sale
Instagram
my Shapeways store

[eyetzr]

Hey Clatter, sorry to hear about your Dad... kinda going through that up here as well.
I installed nutserts on the bottom of my posts. No welding & put a little paint & primer between & squeeze them in. Check with H/F I think I saw them when I tripped through there.
Dave, killer work there, really nice stuff.
All the big fancy shops bondo the panels together & block them flat, the trick is not too much bondo.
Keep up the great work. Cheers
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I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"

[VWporscheGT3]

Hey brother,
just want to say your dad will be in my prayers , you and your family as well. it affects the whole family when someone has that large of a fight ahead of them.

as far as the fastback goes, great work to both of you. keep it up! your thread always inspires me to get back out there and work on my own fasty. I pulled it out of storage a couple weeks back and now am going back through it cleaning it, back as putting the harness together and figuring out how to get my hands on the dough for fender welting and window rubber.... too much information ... back to your car.
you are an inspiration to a good chunk of us here, where everyone else... except Bobnotch would have given up and trashed the car , your moving forward. your doing great man keep it up.

God bless
-Trevor
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Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Bobnotch]

Steve, you're making great progress, and you've finally got a game plan to work with. As for renting a booth, or building one, that's your call, but keep in mind that in a rented booth you're time limited, which means you gotta spray and get out. In your DIY booth, you can take your time, and fix anything you don't like. But, there's a drawback to it, in that you need to set up ventilation, and wet the floor down before spraying (to keep the dust down).
If you're going to slick it with filler, try and keep it down to a minimum. This would be a great way to spend the winter, working on it a little at a time (after work?), as that part of the job IS the most time consuming. You'll block for days, only to find spots you missed. It keeps on going like that for weeks. I've spent months just blocking and light filling before, as it's the nature of the beast. It's also why body shops take forever to get stuff done, as it's a time consuming process. Work 1 side of the car, then re-apply your filler. Then work the other side. Go back and forth between them.
You'll spend days, and it won't look like you've done anything (other then sand some primer or filler), but that's part of the job. Don't get discouraged, it'll all work out in the end. Good luck, you've come this far, the rest will be down hill from here.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[supersuk]

Nice work you have going on there! Very lucky that you're getting a lot of help. Before you know it, you'll be painting your car and doing the final assembly!

I have to agree with Bob and say the blocking was the most time consuming part of my build. I took me an average of 16 hours for each panel to get straight. The panel that gave me the hardest time was the front hood because of the curved portion in the front by the VW emblem. The blocks and sandpaper that I had didn't like to do that curve. I eventually got it straight and all I can say is that it looks great.

I'm glad I built my paint booth and sprayed my car in there. It allowed me to work at my pace and figure out the solvent pop problems I had while I painted. All I can say is that set me back about 2 weeks worth of work. If you have that kind of problems, imagine how much money you will be spending to rent booths! Also, no one in Hawaii would allow me to rent their booth. Hahaha
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68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323

[Brent]

[Clatter]

And on we (Dave) goes...

I added a passenger side mirror mount.

Dave spread mud, and sanded it all off again a few times.

On and on..

_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[glutenfree]

On the downhill slope!!!

I spent a couple months doing a pair of rear fenders (quarter panels with custom removable sides for slicks) and hood with a huge scoop on my buddies 68 Dodge Dart (600+ ci, naturally aspirated 9 second drag race car) many years ago...I still wasn't 100% satisfied with the "fenders" but my buddy was more than happy and the car looked pretty darned good when all said and done.

Those Dodge Dart fenders are flat compared to these type 3s...I can see myself loosing a good half year or more to sanding/blocking & skim coating when I finally get to that point on my project.

Thanks for sharing your progress. Don't forget to wear a mask while sanding
Cheers!
_________________
1971 Fastback Build
VW/Type 3 Parts for sale
Instagram
my Shapeways store

[MonT3]

Clatter, it’s looking good and I agree 1000% percent with the above comments. Regardless of all the cool work you’ve already put into the pan, tunnel, sizing/lining up the front, that rear apron surprise, it all comes down to this step to make it all tie-in together. Take your time, however long it takes and don’t be discouraged. It’s a consuming task but one well worth the results. Especially with proposed color. Look forward to your updates man. Hope you’re supplying your buddy Dave some cold beverage to wash down the dust.
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild

[Brent]

So I have to ask, seeing Dave shape your fenders and all. Realizing it will open the debate once again.

What are your plans for the vents? Was kind of hoping to see the late vents get welded in.

I'm in the bigger forward facing is better crowd, think of all that air a big healthy Type 4 could use.
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69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

You will notice in the pic above what happened...
The result of which are shown below!

The 36-grit scratches are a 'guide coat' of sorts,
Showing the dents, and associated perimeter creases.

But note -
This is an 'after' picture!

Scuffing that again will make scratches evenly all across..

Sometimes you find something that really works,
And in this case, its called a dinging spoon..
http://www.eastwood.com/light-dinging-spoon-model-1036.html

This thing worked a treat!
(That would be Dave worked - got to give credit where it's due - That's Dave's work right there.)

Nice to have something that goes like it's supposed to!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Brent]

[Clatter]

Lesseee... Where were we, again?

We (Dave) been doing all kinds of crap over the whole car;
None of it got pictures and words.
I did, however, take a few pictures during Friday morning,
To tell our story here.

Dave spent some time on the dented roof-
The dinging spoon is a beautiful thing.


A couple rounds of mud were showing results:

You could, however, feel these imperfections..
So I got the bright idea of spreading the whole roof!

Zee spesiale of zee even-ing ees a delightful concoction I call a Rage Gold..
Lightly sautéed in plastic honey.. With just a hint of hardeniour...

The edges of the roof are actually straight!
(Dave had to do significant straightening of all the drip rails, even )
AFAIK, the edges of the roof are the only straight spot on the whole car.
Gives us an edge to work from..
Spreading away..

Dave feathered in the edges with some 36 on a long board.
Check out how buff he's getting from sanding every day!
Then I spread that side, too..

Dave saw a youtube video where a guy made a cutter out of a spreader.

The whole roof!
Now what?

Dave likes his high-dollar Hustlers.
I think they just 'ride the waves', and don't level.


Was thinking of taking the wheels off of the car, and setting it flat on the ground,
In order to reach the roof.
instead, we just used Brent's table.

Only another 6-8 hours of grueling labor to hand-block all of this mud away,
resulting in something that looks exactly like this:

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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[supersuk]

Nice job on the blocking. I must say that you're progressing really fast! I remember having to redo the roof after I put on the epoxy because it still wasn't as straight as I wanted it to be. Spray on about 4 coats of hi-build and that did the trick. Hope you have the 3m powder type guide coat because that stuff is just plain awesome.
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68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323

[Brent]

71 pages in and fluffy head shows his mug. lol

Nice work. You and Dave are killing it.
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69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build

[Erik G]

we used to call that spoon thing a slapper. somewhere I have a big one made from a leaf spring. They do really work well and multiple ways to use them including shrinking down hot metal with an ice cold slapper

great progress. reminds me that I hate sanding...
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!