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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
So, Bob got me to thinking again...
This is the "donor" piece that goes in, and is removed from the "recipient"..
So, not only is there brazing there, but also spot-welds... (Bitch!)
Plus, a long seam-weld running all along the bottom of the curved section; at least the seam is easy to get at and grind away. You can see the last of this ground-away seam at the right.
The idea is that the donor piece will slide right in here:
Some bodywork to get it a bit more straight...
This will get the holes welded shut to receive plug-welding. And after tacking into place, will get brazed again at the hot-rod shop.
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I still say that you're over thinking this. If you really look at the pieces you have, the upper cowl part still needs that flap removed (that you sliced thru the weld of). I sat that, as you can see where the donor piece is going to go, and it already has that hole in it (for the very front under the dash fender bolt).
Here's a couple of pics of a cowl section Mike sent me (sorry Mike, I just haven't gotten around to installing it, YET). You can see some of the inner structure is actually for the "A" post, with the rest of it spot welded to the other bits of metal.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Which got a bit more depressing...
Holy Side-Swipe Batman!
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I really got to look at these pics you posted, and I know what they did.
When you put all of these pics together, it looks like someone replaced the entire lower door opening section.  If you look closely at the "A" post pics, you'll see that the spot welds were drilled out, and a small gas weld was applied to the front edge of the holes. Someone spent some time fitting that section in place (not an easy job). I wonder, IF you looked lower and toward the rear on the inside, IF they used the entire heater channel section too. If so, then they really did one hell of a job with the work they did, as that's a ton of work.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vlad01
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I might add the gas welds look pretty decent as well.
I rarely see good welds like that on any car so looks like decent effort was put in.
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The best of VW engine development!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROWqjuTM0g
71 Aussie notchback, the money pit
92 VP vacationer, old faithful never die
95 VR executive, Restored beyond factory
92 VP S Pack, bought it new old |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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So, once again, Bob is right...
*sigh*
Those guys replaced the whole left side!
Heater channel, up to the middle of the "A" pillar,
And from the middle of the rear quarter windows, bottom of "B" pillar...
Here's the cut Bob so artfully predicted; right in front of the left heater outlet:
Compare it to the right side:
Here's the tip of the inner fender that I had cut too short,
rescued and placed where it will be welded back to where it goes.
Here it is up in place, where it will live.
Figuring out how to get it welded in was the subject of my past post.
Shows where the spot-welds will be separated and the brazed areas ground away and the cowl metal either peeled back or cut away to make room to weld it in place...
And, some rust at the front cowl drain area.
Thankfully have a piece to scab in there...
Rust at the right rear pop-out latch.
The car sat outside for years with the pop-outs open...
Think I can just blast a bunch of bird-shit in there and grind it clean?
Hard to cut little pieces and weld them in that tight into that crack...
This shows what else I have been doing to avoid further front clip frustration,
Removing yellow foam with a frayed clutch cable chucked up in a drill,
Grinding away paint for welding,
Cussing, drinking, and wishing I had another hobby!
I'm about to go and push the body shell back under the tarp-garage for a while,
And go and have some fun with my floor-pan some more.
As, i'm not so sick of the floor pan anymore,
For some reason....
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hang in there man. with what you've uncovered, you can make adjustments to what's already been done to make it better. No setback, keep pushing as the work looks to be well done. Get some pan action! Chicka-chicka-pow-wow 
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
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Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
So, once again, Bob is right...
*sigh*
Those guys replaced the whole left side!
Heater channel, up to the middle of the "A" pillar,
And from the middle of the rear quarter windows, bottom of "B" pillar...
Here's the cut Bob so artfully predicted; right in front of the left heater outlet |
So what does that mean in real world terms?? You'll be required to run a 4-point or better roll cage if you take it to the track. . .  Since that is likely never going to happen with this car, shrug it off and don't worry about it; it's a brilliant repair that has been done about as well as it could be done. It's such a good repair that even with all the deconstructing you've done to this point over several years, you've *just* noticed it. . . I'd be more concerned with getting that front-end all put back on right and straight.
Chin-up brother!! Carry on!!
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Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Nate M. wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
So, once again, Bob is right...
*sigh*
Those guys replaced the whole left side!
Heater channel, up to the middle of the "A" pillar,
And from the middle of the rear quarter windows, bottom of "B" pillar...
Here's the cut Bob so artfully predicted; right in front of the left heater outlet |
So what does that mean in real world terms?? You'll be required to run a 4-point or better roll cage if you take it to the track. . . Since that is likely never going to happen with this car, shrug it off and don't worry about it; it's a brilliant repair that has been done about as well as it could be done. It's such a good repair that even with all the deconstructing you've done to this point over several years, you've *just* noticed it. . . I'd be more concerned with getting that front-end all put back on right and straight.
Chin-up brother!! Carry on!! |
Yup, someone spent some time trying to get it right. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it looks very close. It's also an older repair, and everything still looks pretty good as far as the repairs go. I have to agree with Nate, and just shrug it off, and move forward. What's done is done, and you can't really do anything about (other than cut it out, and replace it ). Just try and get the front back together, and get it as close as you can. Short of a factory weld jig, that's the best you can do.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm over it already...
After spending the whole last few days cutting and chiseling and grinding and breathing dust and skinning knuckles,
I whine like a baby girl at the end of the day...
Stripping off all that paint and seam-sealer with the Mackage-Attacker gets me good and pissed off, that's for sure!
Having a hard time finding a person who can press out my door hinge pins locally.
A few shops I talked to are all about "heating it up and banging the pins out with a hammer and drift".
The NOS passenger door has no hinges,
And the good driver's door I have has a seized hinge.
Otherwise, I would hang the doors, and measure some gaps,and see if they got the section in correctly.
If they got the measurements right, and the section is in within a 16th or so, I'll just run it.
Got to realize, that the way the doors shut, and all of the gaps lined up on this car, _something_ was very very wrong.
I could have guessed by the way it all fit and worked.
I know now.
This was one of those cars that took 2 or 3 tries to get the door shut sometimes, even though I spent a whole afternoon chasing my tail with latch adjustments...
Once I get all of the cutting done on the front end, and the front clip can slide into place, then some mock-up can happen.
-But-
Before I even think about welding anything up there,
the doors, hood and fenders will all need to be hung,
With the front clip sheet-metal screwed in place...
EACH of these parts came from different cars(!)
So it's gonna be a whole panel party one day when they all get to screw together for a test-fit on the final pan, all in bare metal.
Maybe I'll just rattle-can some clear over the whole schmear and put it together that way...
Aahh,
Just like Nate dreams of that tiny time slip at the track..
I dream of unloading this car from the trailer,
Vintage luggage on the roof-rack,
Antique skis clamped to the deck-lid,
Coca-Cola picnic cooler on display,
Time-out doll's face buried in hands on the front bumper...
Can't be afraid to dream...
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Last edited by Clatter on Tue May 06, 2014 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Yeah, I'm over it already...
Having a hard time finding a person who can press out my door hinge pins locally.
A few shops I talked to are all about "heating it up and banging the pins out with a hammer and drift".
The NOS passenger door has no hinges,
And the good driver's door I have has a seized hinge.
Otherwise, I would hang the doors, and measure some gaps,and see if they got the section in correctly.
If they got the measurements right, and the section is in within a 16th or so, I'll just run it. |
I'm kind of surprised that you didn't have the hinge worked on when you had the door massaged. Right before they did their magic on it would have been the best time to fix it. I think Phillip (Notched) has some pics of the hinge pin tool, that he used when he was swapping hinges on his Notch project (his were rusted too). But I believe, short of "heating and beating", you'll need some sort of press, and some heat to get the hinge pins out.
I'm sure you coul use a straight but rusty door to check the opening with. I thought you said you have 3 or 4 lefts there. One of them should be straight enough to use as a test door.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Rust at the right rear pop-out latch.
The car sat outside for years with the pop-outs open...
Think I can just blast a bunch of bird-shit in there and grind it clean?
Hard to cut little pieces and weld them in that tight into that crack...
This shows what else I have been doing to avoid further front clip frustration,
Removing yellow foam with a frayed clutch cable chucked up in a drill,
Grinding away paint for welding,
Cussing, drinking, and wishing I had another hobby!
I'm about to go and push the body shell back under the tarp-garage for a while,
And go and have some fun with my floor-pan some more.
As, i'm not so sick of the floor pan anymore,
For some reason....
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It looks like you'll have to make some patches up to fix that area. You could try and throw some bubble gum in there, but you'll probably blast thru it before you actually start fixing it.
This is partly why I just dig in with both feet, and sandblast any and all rust I see. I strip the paint off too, so I can get ALL of the rust visible, so I know where I need to spend time fixing stuff. The more you put off things like that, the more disgusted you get when you keep finding more. I like to make it ALL visible, and know where it's hiding. That way I don't get any surprises later on.
You can go back to the pan mods IF you want, but eventually you'll have to return to the body, and then you'll be pissed that you didn't get any further along than you did. Stuff like that likes to come back and haunt you big time.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
You can go back to the pan mods IF you want, but eventually you'll have to return to the body, and then you'll be pissed that you didn't get any further along than you did. Stuff like that likes to come back and haunt you big time. |
And, again, words of wisdom...
I Wailed away at it again today, and this time actually felt like I got somewhere.
Figured maybe some "C" pillar stuff to start out.
Cutting up my sections I got from Dave's car.
Turns out the '69 used "wood" screws vs. threaded like mine,
So a little cut-and-switch was in order.
Chop Chop!
And fit!
WhooHoo!
Got stoked enough to move back to the front.
Here is that danged piece not letting me get it free...
Rather than Over Think it anymore, out comes the SawZall!!
Don't Think, just cut!
It actually needed another cut along the cowl before the clip would slide in.
And, believe it or not,
here is 'Test Fit Number One'..
WhooHoo!!!
A bit of trimming here and there,
And, of course, a _bunch_ of welding and grinding,
And we can start some assembly.
But, for now,
I'm going to hold off on firing up the welder,
because I'm now going to start rigging up a blaster,
And anything that makes it easier to blast is a good thing...
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Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Go Clatter Go!!!
I know you can, I know you can. . .
_________________
Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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supersuk
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010
Posts: 958
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the encouragement guys,
I appreciate it.
Even though there was an instant where I was sure one of my nuts was going to roll down my pant leg and fall onto the ground,
I'm still using the twisted-knot Mackage Attacker.
It seems to be the only thing that really eats through the paint.
After aircraft stripper, where applicable.
One thing I DO know about body/paint is to NEVER get chemical stripper anywhere near seams.
It will get in there, and lurk until your fresh paint-job comes, and then crawl out and attack!
I finish up with an "abrasive-impregnated sponge-looking" dual-wheel traditional paint stripping thing I got a Homo-wner Depot.
It puts a nice finish on the metal and removes the rest of the smear-age from the knot wheel.
I'm really not looking forward to blasting.
Procrastinating it as much as I can.
My wife is going to be SO pissed off when I turn the tarp-garage into a beach.
Can hear her already...
Have a headache just thinking about it!
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supersuk
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010
Posts: 958
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Hahaha, I really don't like blasting too! It makes way too much of a mess and takes way too long when doing it at home. Also, I literally look like I came out of a coal mine after a long days work, minus the clean area where my respirator is. I'll be doing some blasting of the frunk area, along with the air intake area on the passenger side. Whoo Hoo. =(
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68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Funny you should mention the rear intake area...
Because the factory seam-sealer has failed on my car long ago,
I don't see any other way of getting it all clean down in there without drilling spot-welds to remove the whole 'side wall' of the intake air box thingies.
Seems that the very bottom inside of the air boxes are the best place for rust to hide.
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supersuk
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010
Posts: 958
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, that is true! I already did the passenger side because there was some accident damage there. Removed all the spot welds and did it separately. I'm gonna be doing the driver side this weekend.
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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So, away we go, plugging on...
Kids were on spring break, which was both helpful, and a hindrance, to progress.
But,
Got some stuff done.
Been on the quest to find some correct door panels for this car...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=589342
Luckily, Mario at TMI has promised me that my dreams are to be answered,
So the panels and all got boxed up and shipped off to him.
If you are restoring one of these cars - '67 and up, your door-panels might just get a lot more accurate!
And, the Mackage Attacker rages on...
Hopefully eating seam-sealer, rust, and old paint, and not any body parts or clothing.
Wheeee! fun!
Took the side panels off of the rear air intake boxes.
All in all, it looks pretty good in there. Really feel like I lucked out in the rust department.
The seam-sealer has failed, and it gives me a chance to blast and prime and seam-seal it all up.
Some areas I had less luck with, though.
Most all of the rust on this car was from sitting outside for years with the pop-outs open, and likely a failed rear window seal?
This is under the back seat.
Luckily, much of this will get cut away to build the 'house' for the trans-axle anyway.
Damon has been by a bit, and helped me load up the body onto the cart.
What would we ever do without friends???
The mission to remove seam-sealer and grime and dirt and old paint and rust with the Attacker has gotten Balls Deep now...
Speaking of Damon,
Here's a real smile...
The guy took this motor apart 6(!) years ago.
Kept heckling him to bring all of it by my shop so we can put it all together.
I have done a couple dozen type 4 motors now,
and have a half-dozen's worth of extra parts lying around, and all of the tools,
And the engine stand is empty these days, so Get Your Shit Over Here!
We just have a couple more small items to do,
and we can fire it up and break the cam in on the run-stand...
WhooHoo!!!
Really feels good to help out a brother.. Especially a guy who so totally deserves it.
Ran and got my e-brake handle from the coater right out of the blaster, but before he coated it (whew!).
Love a center-drill...
If you don't have a set of these, you owe it to yourself to try them.
Makes life SO much easier.
This never would be possible without one.
After finish drilling to depth,
Cut the end off of the drill bit and used it as a pin.
JB welded that sucker into place and back to the coater it goes!
Thanks again to Bob for pointing me in the right direction (again).
So, stay tuned to this channel, folks.
with any luck, there might be some CONstruction,
Instead of all of the DEstruction that seems to be my whole M.O. these last few months...
(bangs head against wall)
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