Black Fastback Build Thread

[gavs]

Not being an air-cooled aficionado like most others commenting here, but that hanger bar.... That wouldn't be any form of hardened would it? Any sign of case hardening on it? If so, welding it is a very bad idea...... If not, then please, continue:)

[JeeJeeJason]

Having seen this car or "parts of the car" in person now, I can really appreciate this thread that much more. Going to be one sweet fastback when it's done.
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1968 FI Squareback

[Clatter]

It was cool hanging out with you yesterday, Jason.

Always fun to hang with another VW person.
I'm stranded on an island of non-car people, and babble on like a maroon...


Here's a pic of my crewchief adjusting tire pressures according to the sticker on the inside of the glovebox..

Your car turned out SO Sweet!
You need to post up some pics for everyone.

i forget what these things look like all put together and sitting on the wheels...
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Welp, progress is progress.

Here is Ian from Santa Cruz Metal Polishing:

Making things better..
The VIN tag had been mangled in a prior wreck.
As a result, the anodize was compromised, and the thing had also corroded badly.
Here also is my gas cap polished up.
This is just bare mild steel, mind, and will need coated with something.
Anybody know the correct finish for a gas cap?
Zinc?

Figured a way to prop up the pans to grind at the humps.
Lot of grinding..
My hands are so shot. They fall asleep after about 10 minutes of this.
Like when your foot falls asleep..
You kids wouldn't know anything about this *yet*.

And, correcting for when I had -foolishly- ASSumed that one of those holes in the pans was in the right spot.

Making doubly sure it's right this time..

Then came the long road of getting the rear hanger brackets 100% ready to go on.
(At least 100% ready for blast and prime so they can go on... )
The drill press foot worked well to get the things laying flat and square.

During construction of the rear bar, the brackets got sheet-metal screwed on a few different times in a few different locations.
Had to weld/grind all of the holes that weren't in the right spot.

And, yes, even though they will be entombed, I ground the duct side too.
Can't have any interference with smooth airflow, in there, right?

And, of course, after blasting all of the rust from the bottom of craters at Ian's.
I did several rounds of: find pinholes - blast a big hole - pile on birdshit - grind forever - find pinholes - blast a big hole - pile on birdshit - grind forever - find pinholes - blast a big hole - pile on birdshit - grind forever - on and on and on and on, without really doing anything except making the part super warped and crispy and thin.....

Ah, another full day down the tubes..
Nothing to report, really, but progress is progress.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Bobnotch]

[racoguy]

When you're doing the weld up pin holes thing- if you can get behind what you're welding hold a copper plate or block against the metal, makes a huge difference.
Your weld won't stick to the copper and the copper wont attach itself to the panel it just acts as something to help cover the hole while welding.
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/West-Worx/460154187360186

[JeeJeeJason]

I'd also leave the gas cap as you have it there, looks great.
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1968 FI Squareback

[Brent]

Get yourself one of these:

So much easier than that hulk of a grinder. The roloc discs are a dime a dozen at the welding store. Much easier on the base metal too.
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69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build

[Clatter]

Thanks for the thoughts, guys.
Reason I didn't cut a patch piece was to preserve the 'number'.
Because the clip, cowl, and outer fender have all been cut and moved,
There are no other reference points as to where exactly the edges of things are.
This was the last part that is actually the right size.
Dunno if that makes any sense...

Anyhow,
Yesterday was a good day.

Started off by dragging the PA out to the blast booth.
Time to get rocking!
Looks whose ears are all at half-annoyed at me for bumping his table as I set this up.
We'll get his table bumping..

The blast pile grows.

And grows..

Scared as I am to do it,
These pieces with the rust pits hidden way down got sloshed with phosphoric acid.
I washed them off with the garden hose afterward and dried them in the sun.
We'll see.
Do what you can, right?

As evening falls, the primer dries...

Big day. Feels good.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Had another day of work on the car.
Was hoping for more blast and prime,
Nature had other plans - rain all day.

No problem finding anything else to do around here..

Started with some lid bodywork.

Then got another idea.

Here's a shot showing the conundrum of spot-weld assembly.

"Butterfinger Rust".
Some of this has been neutralized by the phosphoric acid wash.
Some is blasting sand.
Siome is just rust that the phosphoric never reached.

This is likely what every single seam on this whole car would look like if it were split.
Another reason why having a car dipped is better than blasting;
All of everything can get saturated with the phosphoric rinse the dip places use after stripping.
Hard to really say what is the best treatment.
Better to leave the rust in there?
Better to get the phosphoric soaked into these cracks to neutralize?
Who knows?
Certainly one reason why a restored car never stays nice like an original one...

Got the second intake snorkel almost done.
Just a bit more grinding above it still.
Need to go and get another couple of bits for my die grinder first..

Who knows if i will ever end up using either one of these.
but,
Can't hurt to have it there, right?

'Nother day down, and one step closer.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Bobnotch]

[Brent]

Call me crazy here.

There are a bunch of youtube vids of guys soaking their panels in a giant vat of black strap molasses diluted with water. The results are pretty amazing. Obviously you couldn't do the shell, but I kind of like the idea of tossing a fender in an old garbage can filled with this potion for a couple weeks. Cheap and not much labor involved.
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69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build

[MonT3]

Clatter, each day you gain on it is a day closer to sanding!!!!
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild

[Clatter]

Brent - You're crazy.
Monte -MMmmm... Can't wait!


I did get an hour or two yesterday, and knocked out a job I've been setting up for years.

After the brackets were epoxied, I took off the epoxy along the mounting surface, and -very--very- lightly dusted it with weld-through.

The same was done to the compartment.
Plus, some other holes were added.

Ready... Set...

GO!

Reason for the extra holes was this; access from the back side.

Without being able to blast the from the back side, I might never have never dared use weld-through.
As was learned during my first welding adventures, weld-through is a total hoax, and prevents welds from sticking.
Bad.
Really bad.
Only if you can get to the back side and come from the other direction will you have any chance of the weld holding at all.

Yes, they will need a LOT of grinding, but they'll stick.
And that's what matters here.

So, something done! WhooHoo!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[leviwon]

I need to get up there and see this thing in person, looks like it is coming along good! I am finishing up that fat chick baja that I towed home last year, should be done next month, I'll cruise up and see you.

[Clatter]

Levi!
My Man..
Stop by anytime.
I never do anything else these days...

The last couple of days were all blasting.
Long days..
They seem even longer when sandblasting for some reason.

My life...

Specifically, trying to chase the crust out of all the cracks.

Many times this means re-strippering sections that didn't get strippered enough during the first four or five stripperings...

The new blast pile grows...

Another front fender nutted.

And a rear done too(!)

This brings me to a discussion I just was reminded of by 'fastbackdavid';
The rear vents (louvers).

IIRC, there was discussion about how Mother VW switched them up about 1971(?) when they went from rear-facing to front-facing.
Russ(?) was saying that there was no real need for them to do so, and it was just from customer complaints.
There were those retrofit louver plates to switch directions for early cars, again purported to silence customers who ran hot, or otherwise thought the vents opened the wrong direction..

But,
I'm now of a little different mind.
(Not to disagree with Russ (RIP) ).
I believed him so much back then I even threw away a set of perfect forward-facers that got cut off that parts car from page 1.

Now, can't help but think the forward-facing vents were made to help cooling;
Especially at high speeds.

Unless I'm mistaken, Nate would be the only one who would know anything about it.
Nate, Your NACA ducts ended up working well, right?

Unfortunately, AFAIK, nobody has ever done any back-to-back tests of front vs. rear style.
Might not even help, really, as the vents are on the tail of the car as it narrows down, creating a vacuum there at speed.

It just seems to make sense that you want the scoops facing forward, though, doesn't it?
Especially with a big motor and a tall final gear?

Dag, it's going to be a lot of work to graft late vents into these (now pristine) fenders.
No sense in doing anything easy at his point, right?

Anybody out there got a pair of late-model rear square/fasty fenders all dented up and rusted out, that they could sell me just the vents off of?

Or, even better yet, a bona-fide reason not to?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Nate M.]

I highly doubt I'm the only one to know anything about any one thing.

As for the vents, this has been my experience with mine and the changes I've made and you all can draw your own conclusions. These are my observations after 9 full months of daily driving my car.

Before: Stock fender vents, 2056cc engine, Porsche 923 5-speed trans - CHT would be around 250-300F around town and on the freeway to about 60mph they would bounce between 350-375F. Going up a grade though they would hit 425F+. When I would drive above 60mph, I would see head temps rise fairly linearly with speed. So I would normally only be able to make quick, short duration blasts to high speeds. I never allowed the temps to stabilize at high speeds; I always let off and coasted to cool it down once the temps got to 440-450F since that is my absolute self imposed temp spike limit.

After: Stock fender vents w/ 2 NACA ducts added each side (3" widened which puts the ducts more into the air flow), same 2056cc engine, same 923 5-speed trans - Around town is about the same; no real noticeable change there. The hwy temps now at 70mph (not the earlier 60mph) stabilize at 325-350F. I have a nice 2+ mile grade coming out of Skagit Valley and the temps only momentarily spike to 375-400F and then go back down quickly at the top. If I increase my speeds now, the temps really never go above 350-375F and we're talking 80-90mph+ on a couple 15+ mile runs on fairly even (mildly hilly) ground. At Bonneville, my head temps never went over 375F with the car @ WOT for 1.5 miles in 90F+ heat.

So if people ask me if my fender ducts work, I tell them that for my car in the configuration I have them, they work well for me. I would expect that if you used factory, rear facing "gill" vents only with a 2270cc and the same trans, you *could* run into cooling issues. A lot of this depends on the engine, and the combo it is built with. As you know, poorly configured motors will run hot in an Alaskan winter, others that are properly configured, run cool in the Sahara desert. The 2056cc Porsche 2.0L I'm running is a bone stock bottom-end (cam included) with 150K on it that I threw a new set of 96mm flat tops and the 3-stud Porsche heads with no head gasket. Not my first choice since that stock cam SUCKS, it's worn out and helps the motor run hotter than it should. But it's a "run-what-you-brung" combo that I had.

That's been my experience. . .
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Regards,

Nate M.

Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!

[Clatter]

Oh, the whole vent thing has me disturbed..
It's going to be a lot of work to graft in a set of later vents.
Guess there's just no getting around it.

That leads to the discussion of widening the rear fenders.
I can't decide if I want to widen the rear fenders, or just source some smaller rear wheels.
With the right tires, some 7s will fit easily enough.
With some absurd small-tire stretch and a fender-roll job, those 8s will fit,
But would look super stupid IMHO.
So, the wide-body look is pretty killer - Jaranson and Nate's cars look really good with it.
But, it's hard for me to decide if I want the wide-body ass-end like that, or to leave the sides smooth and straight.
Totally on the fence.. Not because of the work involved, but because I like that straight line running along the side of the car undisturbed.
And, so far, the body/externals and all are stock/sleeper.

I dunno.. Bla bla bla..

One vote against widening is the fact that the air is more likely to get robbed from the motor at speed.
More vacuum will be created behind the widest (now wider) part of the car, right where the intake vents reside.

So, the logical solution is a set of Morse Ducts <---patent pending.
Takes advantage of a high-pressure area, using it to force-feed/ram air into the cooling system.

So,
Go big, or go sleeper?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

And on to what's been happening here...

First off, Mom 'Hit the Wall' WRT the sandblasting thing.
The grit was getting carried by the wind into the house.
It was going so very, very slowly now that the media was all worn out,
Was time to spend more money on media.
The 'sidewall kit' of the booth was failing; the eyelets ripping out from the spring winds, and letting more media out.
This being tracked into the house, by the dog and kids, and the wind howling.
Doesn't help that I have basically quit working to restore this car full-time almost two years ago..

Oh, she let me have it... It was made perfectly clear.

So, things are going to have to slow down on the build here;
Bills are piling up. Don't want a divorce.
I might even have to get, a, *gasp* real job(!)
Dunno if any of you have noticed how many full days have been spent on this..

There's going to be more work farmed out, and me making money to pay people.
Including some blasting.
Not that I'm all that sad to not have to blast anymore...

Anyhow,
Enough of that shit.
Here's what we're here for, not counseling!

The spoils of the last few days' blasting lie in the morning sun.
The lid and apron were not at all rusty, so they are bare metal.
That front fender and rear kick had rust, so they got a phosphate wash followed by a water rinse.
(notice the former blast booth now back to party cabana duty)

And the glory of watching primer dry...
AAahhh... MMmmm.....

Here the stash is stacked into the 'shop'.
I seethe greed and hoard selfishly.

All I see in that pic is a couple of doors to test-fit, decide upon, blast and prime.
Oh, and those seat frames..
There's still a hood and decklid, one rear fender, pans, tunnel, and...
What's that?
Yes, dear,
You're right.
I AM a sonofabitch, and only care about myself and that stupid car.
And I promised I would get a job and wouldn't work on it anymore.....
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[MonT3]

That priming is looking really good. At least you're not tracking in fine dust from sanding glaze and primer into the house. I can't blame that on the dog, especially when my Chuck Taylor shoe prints are on the wood floor.
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild