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Trail Master by MAAS HD review
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jberger
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Trail Master by MAAS HD review Reply with quote

After touring Death Valley last year (600 miles off road) with my GW +2" springs and OG boge shocks.. bouncing over everything…. I decided to find a better solution… I have had this set-up since 2008 and liked it well enough for the first few years. Lately I had noticed the van roll quite a bit while driving around and given the fact that I load the hell out of it when ever we can…. I needed something a bit stiffer and with better damping.

I have direct experience with the same GW +2 springs and OME shocks… not a fan. And syncro.org springs with OME….. Not a fan.

I was not going to spend the cash for fox and new springs, nor a Coil over setup from (take your pick)

The only other system I saw was the Trailmaster by MAAS setup from Van Cafe, of the heavy duty variety. I could not find any technical specs or reviews, but the price was not bad sooo, I picked up a new set and installed on the first of the year.

The install went on without a hitch. I'd be happy to elaborate but I'm sure if your attempting an install like this, you already have the tools and skill to put it in. It's not rocket science. A few things of note: The springs are stiffer and shorter than the GW's so installation was actually a bit easier. You need to re-use the stock front upper bushing\bump stop. it is tight on the damper shaft. I persuaded it into position, but you may want to ream out the bump stop. The front lower bolt bushing insert was a bit too wide for my lower arms, so I filed a wee bit of material from them. The front aluminum spring plate showed signs of coming into contact with the axles after driving around so I hogged out a bit of material for clearance (see pic below). If I knew that from the beginning I would most likely have chucked it up in a lathe and turned a nice bevel on it… but not after installing them. Another item of note is the aluminum spacers provided with the spring plates which give the ability to shim the plate up about 3\8" if both are used. I opted to use only the thicker of the two (about a 1/4"). One could play with the height of the front of the van by using different spacers. I would think a two piece design could also be used so that removing the spring\plate\shock wouldn't be necessary, only compressing the spring to raise the plate.

My van had settled down over the years with the GW springs to rest at

RR and LR 19 9/16" fender to axle center
RF 19" and LF 19 3/8" fender to axle center.
Full droop at front 21 5/8"

The new Set up resulted in a bit of a raise.

RR and LR 20 5/16"
RF and LF 19 3/4"
Full droop at front 22 1/2"

So, after putting a few hundred local, highway and towing miles on the setup…. I couldn't be happier. The ride is quite stiff but not too much so in my opinion. It handles superbly on the highway and on the tight twisty roads in the SF bay area. Huge hits that used to shock the van, make it bounce wildly and sway are now not even there. You do feel the sharp road transitions a bit more but that would be expected. I thought of replacing all of the suspension bushings during the process, but really wanted to feel the difference between the shocks and springs alone… as apples to apples as can be.

I have not done any death valley driving yet, but have tried several off road areas around my home… One such dirt lot that I would have to crawl through with the previous set up, hitting compression bumps and topping out the shocks rather uncomfortably was a great surprise. I railed through it rather swiftly and the Trailmaster springs and shocks worked so well together.

We took our normal Sunday Church service moto trip this weekend.. 5 bikes, 6 people and gear… No surprise there was much less sag on the suspension when loaded and it was as if the weight was not back there at all on the highway. Previously I would need to saw away on the wheel to keep the moto train going straight down the road. I wouldn't have called it unsafe… but I also wouldn't want a novice tow'er to be next to me on the highway with the same set-up. The new system actually made the round trip quite enjoyable rather than something to be suffered through.

At the end of the day, the Trailmaster system works quite well, providing increased handling, damping, weight carrying… and overall driving enjoyment. My wife and I just can't believe how smooth and steady it feels on any surface.

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Last edited by jberger on Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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furrylittleotter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up. Thanks!

Neil2
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carterzest
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent write up and definitely gets me leaning this way over the Fox shocks.
I like that they are a complete package and also give you a slight lift. Now I just wonder if I should get the tintop shocks or the Westy shocks as my tintop will not necessarily be a lightweight all of the time. Hmmmm.

I do not like some of the disclaimers on the GW Fox shocks as I quite enjoy geting my wheels, front and rear, off the ground and do not feel like spending this kind of money on top dollar shocks and dealing with this below
Quote:
• Front: At full "droop" (wheel completely off the ground), you will notice that the upper ball joint portion of the suspension may come into contact with the spring. Other than the possibility of hearing a noise when your Syncro is completely airborne, this contact causes no issues whatsoever. A small amount of grinding on the suspension components to create clearance is possible, but it is NOT necessary.
• Rear: At full "droop" (wheel completely off the ground), the drive axles are subject to a more severe angle. This may cause noise to occur, especially from a worn-out CV joint. Again, this noise is of no consequence. For extreme off-roading, we recommend upgrading to the larger 108mm CV joints.

GW is offering a FOX Non-Adjustable/No Front Reservoir shock package for $600 less - @$999, then the Adjustable Fox Shock Kit @ $1599, but, I am really liking the look and price of the Trailmaster kit{s) at $1275 tintop and $1345 for Westy. The orange would definitely pop under Mr. Hanky as well Cool

Thanks for taking the time to document this for we who have yet to make the decision. Fantastic pics and information!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this! It's great reading. Can I ask for some elaboration on what you didn't like about the schwenk springs and the OME combo and how these are better? I'm sure this could be a personal preference as I've heard so much good about that setup. You seem to be carrying a lot more weight than most so is it not up to the that many toys? I'm trying to figure out a suspension setup for my syncro and this looks like an appealing option. Thanks again.
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jberger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danbar wrote:
Thanks for this! It's great reading. Can I ask for some elaboration on what you didn't like about the schwenk springs and the OME combo and how these are better? I'm sure this could be a personal preference as I've heard so much good about that setup. You seem to be carrying a lot more weight than most so is it not up to the that many toys? I'm trying to figure out a suspension setup for my syncro and this looks like an appealing option. Thanks again.


The biggest issue I have with the OME shocks (besides seeing several blown out and the harshness of the damping characteristics) is the overall length. In my experience, when coupled with longer springs, going over a speed bump, or pulling out of a driveway or gas station curb the rear would drop out.... Bang... all the time. Same problem with the Boge and longer springs. I kind of got used to it over the years... easing through those areas... But now the suspension just plain works better.

When pulling out of my side driveway with the bikes et all, it is off camber, off a curb and turning uphill. In the past I could almost see daylight at my sliding door seam due to the body twisting, now the door creeks a bit, but all 4 wheels stay where they should and just roll on. It acts the same way when empty as well.

There is a spot on highway 85 and 101 that I always hit while towing, it is an overpass approach that would send my front end in the air, full extension, wheels off the ground... with the new system my steering wheel did not even twitch.. of course it was still a bump, but wheels on the ground, no bouncing and not very harsh.

For me, it was simple, the TM setup was the only solution with springs and shocks as a package designed to work together, with more usable travel, standard or HD options, well under 2k. If I was to go with the fox system, the rear springs would still be too soft and I would need new front springs to make it work.... much more expense and not many raving reviews.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice write-up Mr Berger! I have the "standard" kit installed on a tin-top. My ride heights are 21.25" front and 20.75" rear with a full tank of fuel, my tool kit, roof rack and hatch mounted bike rack. This is with all of the spring perch shims installed.

I really like the spring rates and the rear shocks feel great, but the standard front shock need more rebound valving. I spoke to Bernd at Maas and he said they have discontinued this version of both the standard and HD front shocks and they will be offering newly valved front shocks any time now. I will be obtaining a set of these revised shocks and removing the thicker of the two front spring perch shims to level off the ride heights. Once the front shocks with the new valving are in place, the think that I will be 100% satisfied with the results.

Thanks for the insight on the axle clearance. With both shims installed, my perches show no signs of contact, but that may change once I remove the thickest shims.

One other thing that I noticed with mine is that without any upper ball joint spacers in place (I'm not running any), the upper control arm can make contact with the spring at full droop. The cure for this is to install the springs with the tightly wound coils on the bottom and to "clock" the springs to obtain maximum clearance when the upper control arm is in full droop.

I previously had a set of OME shocks with a set of older lift springs (not GW springs) and the ride quality was terrible (remember, this is a light weight tin top). As Mr. Berger stated, they were nearly topped out completely, so there was almost zero droop available. The previous ride height was nearly identical with the OME/lift spring set up compared to the new Maas set-up. The difference in overall droop is solely dependent on the difference in the length of the shocks (in this case).
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both! That's the comparison I was looking for. It appears all things are coming up TM for my syncro, especially with the new version coming out.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI MBERGER, Very nice report with lots of information. Thanks. Hate to ask for additional information, we can see your on 15" rims BUT, can you give us tire size, tire brand and tire pressures front and back? Did you have your machine four-wheel aligned after your install? Btw, that is one heck of a tow load...what are you running for power?

CHRIS S, Previous threads on this subject listed Burley's in Santa Barbara as a source. Don't see Trailmaster/MAAS listed any longer on his website. The perfect source is YOU! Any plans to carry this line of suspension parts, it would be perfect one stop shopping with your bushings, springs, shocks, and your other suspension related hardware. I'm in the market to replace my Syncro's stock pieces, happy to be your first customer with the re-valved shocks. Btw, how do you know of Moon Canyon on Mt. Washington? Grow up there? PM me if you did.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slo356 wrote:
HI MBERGER, Very nice report with lots of information. Thanks. Hate to ask for additional information, we can see your on 15" rims BUT, can you give us tire size, tire brand and tire pressures front and back? Did you have your machine four-wheel aligned after your install? Btw, that is one heck of a tow load...what are you running for power?

CHRIS S, Previous threads on this subject listed Burley's in Santa Barbara as a source. Don't see Trailmaster/MAAS listed any longer on his website. The perfect source is YOU! Any plans to carry this line of suspension parts, it would be perfect one stop shopping with your bushings, springs, shocks, and your other suspension related hardware. I'm in the market to replace my Syncro's stock pieces, happy to be your first customer with the re-valved shocks. Btw, how do you know of Moon Canyon on Mt. Washington? Grow up there? PM me if you did.

David


I am running Nokian Entyre 205/70/15's at the moment. 47psi front, 49psi back. I have historically run 215/75/15's from cooper, yokohama, bfg.... I performed the 4 wheel alignment myself.

I have posted quite a bit about my 2.4 and 2.2 wbx power plants so won't take up Suspension posts with them.

BTW, as stated above, Van Cafe carries the Trailmaster kits.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Trailmasters on the front of my tin-top with stock springs. I ordered them from Syncro Services in Germany before anyone stateside had them available. Everyone who rides in the Syncro always comments on the wonderful ride. I can't complain at all myself.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW, why is it so difficult sometimes to buy Vanagon stuff? The NEWLY re-valved shocks / springs MAAS suspension kit won't be available in the U.S. until the end of MARCH 2014 at the earliest. Europe seems to have availability very soon,yet this side of the Atlantic gets to wait two and a half months...as per distributor.('Sad')('Confused')
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jberger
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slo356 wrote:
WOW, why is it so difficult sometimes to buy Vanagon stuff? The NEWLY re-valved shocks / springs MAAS suspension kit won't be available in the U.S. until the end of MARCH 2014 at the earliest. Europe seems to have availability very soon,yet this side of the Atlantic gets to wait two and a half months...as per distributor.('Sad')('Confused')


I have no complaints regarding the action of the front shocks. I would assume only the valving has changed? What type of changes? I wouldn't hesitate to purchase the same system again if I was in need.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have the new valved shocks been released? Where can we buy them?

Yes I know van-cafe has this setup, but it is the previous generation
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is great to read those comparisons. I was very much in doubt when I was looking for a lift kit, but settled on the regular Trailmaster kit.

After studying the specs I found that the rear shocks were actually 15mm longer in the regular kit when compared to the Heavy duty kit, so room for a little more lift (although the real limit is the cv joints, which I plan on changing to Porsche style)

Front springs are identical in the two sets, rear springs have different part numbers, but dont know the exact difference.

On my Multivan syncro TDK, I run both spacers up front, and kept the original turbodiesel spacers in the rear. Have yet to measure height, it is a bit complicated due to the 16" flares:



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I can only agree With the others that the ride is superb. Both on tarmac, and going slow off road. It is a little bit on the hard side when going fast on gravel, but nothing too bothersome.

I had to use ball joint spacers, but realize now that I could have indexed the springs better.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got fox shocks with a new acquisition and love them so far. I will do a full review comparing to my old rig shortly. These look very interesting thought...I love the color too!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OddN wrote:
It is great to read those comparisons. I was very much in doubt when I was looking for a lift kit, but settled on the regular Trailmaster kit.

After studying the specs I found that the rear shocks were actually 15mm longer in the regular kit when compared to the Heavy duty kit, so room for a little more lift (although the real limit is the cv joints, which I plan on changing to Porsche style)

Front springs are identical in the two sets, rear springs have different part numbers, but dont know the exact difference.

On my Multivan syncro TDK, I run both spacers up front, and kept the original turbodiesel spacers in the rear. Have yet to measure height, it is a bit complicated due to the 16" flares:



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I can only agree With the others that the ride is superb. Both on tarmac, and going slow off road. It is a little bit on the hard side when going fast on gravel, but nothing too bothersome.

I had to use ball joint spacers, but realize now that I could have indexed the springs better.


Got out to measure ride height today. Turns out Im at 20,5" from center of axle to fender lip front and rear. Measured to metal lip both front and rear.

According to this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538751

I actually need the Porsche CV's.

Im running 205R-16 on 6x16 Mefro Wheels.

Plans are 245/75R-16 BF All Terrain on Ronal R9 Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe a dumb question but is the TM kit useable a 2wd setup too?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

forget that, i just read the VC explination of use.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slo356 wrote:
WOW, why is it so difficult sometimes to buy Vanagon stuff? The NEWLY re-valved shocks / springs MAAS suspension kit won't be available in the U.S. until the end of MARCH 2014 at the earliest. Europe seems to have availability very soon,yet this side of the Atlantic gets to wait two and a half months...as per distributor.('Sad')('Confused')
Any updates on when the newly re-valved version of this Shocks/springs MAAS suspension kit?
Tintop Syncro is ready to make a move PRE-SYNCRO~SOLSTICE.

Stock 14" wheels/BFG's, soon going to CLK 15"'s with BFG's, but, maybe not before Solstice(Wife saw the visa bill Evil or Very Mad ).

Thanks.

I am about ready to pull the trigger on these.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great review!
Looks like the Trailmaster uses thicker wire for the springs and probably has a higher spring rate. Which would make sense why youre not bouncing as much. Glad you found a good match for your vehicle weight.

fwiw, it would help others if you give the weight of your vehicle.

As far as the front axle hitting the spring perch, Fox shocks do that too, IF you use GW +2 springs.. but its better to use the +0 in front, since the Fox spring perch is threaded and can be raised... no shim required.

Youre running really tall at over 20", seems the Trailmaster wont let you get down to your previous 19.5, nor even 20". Just flagging that issue for others already worrying about the next purchase of 930CVs and axle$

Kudos also for listing droop distance, that extra 1" droop is definitely going to add to the CV angle.

fwiw, the highest angle I have measured with Fox shocks at full droop is 19degrees on the front axle shaft. I would be interested in knowing the angle your front axle achieves.

This speaks to CV choices, as stock maxes out at 18degrees, while 930's go up to 28degrees.

What tends to fail on the high lift vans is the boot, which once damaged lets dirt and water in to destroy the CV.. keep an eye on your boots.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417210&start=320
SyncroGhia wrote:

My CV boots can last anywhere from a week to a month. No more.


jberger wrote:
My van had settled down over the years with the GW springs to rest at
LR 19 9/16" fender to axle center
LF 19 3/8" fender to axle center.
Full droop at front 21 5/8"

The Trailmaster Set up resulted in a bit of a raise.
LR 20 5/16"
LF 19 3/4"
Full droop at front 22 1/2"


Im running GW +2 progressive springs in the rear, extended trailing arms, LR 21" ride height
rear suspension has 2" of drop and 1" of compression, so 23" full droop

Im running GW +0 progressive springs in front, with Fox Shocks, that have adjustable perches. LF 20" ride height
front suspension has 2" of drop and 3" of compression, so 22" full droop
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