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mcdonaldneal
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Joined: June 13, 2013
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Location: Gullane, Scotland
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mcdonaldneal
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2013
Posts: 2648
Location: Gullane, Scotland
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 Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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In each end are metal collars with what I assume are the asbestos cuffs
Its not clear when VW stopped using asbestos for these, but given the crumbly nature of mine I disassembled underwater and double bagged them until I can clarify. I have had a couple of false starts getting the silicone vanagon/ type 25 cuffs which are alleged to be a direct replacement. I'm not clear whether that means I'll have to reuse the metal collars or not (anyone know?)
The two tubes are different lengths and both unscrew to reveal the insulating wadding, metal mesh and end caps
one of them was distorted inside, presumably from a rock pinging into it at high speed!
Just pushed it back out.
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper
Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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mcdonaldneal
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Joined: June 13, 2013
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Location: Gullane, Scotland
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mcdonaldneal
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Location: Gullane, Scotland
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nodrenim
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Joined: October 06, 2006
Posts: 843
Location: Dobson, North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| 211 numbers are for type 2 parts and 113 numbers are for type 3 parts, I believe, at least that's what I was once told by a VW parts guru. |
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mcdonaldneal
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Joined: June 13, 2013
Posts: 2648
Location: Gullane, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| nodrenim wrote: |
| 211 numbers are for type 2 parts and 113 numbers are for type 3 parts, I believe, at least that's what I was once told by a VW parts guru. |
Thanks, I read that too (this morning)! Apparently, if a part is reused in another application then it keeps the same part number. I just wasn't sure why the two short ends, with the same part number 113 255 358 D both have the VW logo and have a different font. I guess one or other was replaced at some point before I got the van. (BTW, called it that, short for 'camper van', or 'the Kombi', since we got it in Australia 14yrs ago).
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper
Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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merlinj79
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Joined: December 05, 2008
Posts: 379
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
There is also a second loose metal ring that fits over the top. There's nothing to hold it in place but I presume the metal/ asbestos/ silicone cuff will keep it in the right place? |
That ring (the loose one) is almost certainly asbestos, not metal. I think SGKent suggested cutting a replacement out of a sheet of high-temp silicone. I was in a hurry so I just liberally coated the rings with red RTV, figuring that would keep it sealed up. They seem to be held in place by the seals you have on order.
I did not re-use the metal sleeves with the asbestos, the vanagon seals seemed to fit perfectly without the sleeve.
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Rick
"Pumpkin II"
Stock 2L FI '77 Westy
CA Smog Stuff |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| merlinj79 wrote: |
| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
There is also a second loose metal ring that fits over the top. There's nothing to hold it in place but I presume the metal/ asbestos/ silicone cuff will keep it in the right place? |
That ring (the loose one) is almost certainly asbestos, not metal. I think SGKent suggested cutting a replacement out of a sheet of high-temp silicone. I was in a hurry so I just liberally coated the rings with red RTV, figuring that would keep it sealed up. They seem to be held in place by the seals you have on order.
I did not re-use the metal sleeves with the asbestos, the vanagon seals seemed to fit perfectly without the sleeve. |
I painted my asbestos rings with a very high temp paint to seal the asbestos. The air inside those bellows gets hot enough to melt things. Do not machine wash the outer cloth that looks like carpet matting. It will fall apart.
This was an aftermarket tube advertised to replace the steel. We went back to the steel.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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You can just use high temperature silicone to keep these rings in place. |
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mcdonaldneal
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Joined: June 13, 2013
Posts: 2648
Location: Gullane, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| merlinj79 wrote: |
| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
There is also a second loose metal ring that fits over the top. There's nothing to hold it in place but I presume the metal/ asbestos/ silicone cuff will keep it in the right place? |
That ring (the loose one) is almost certainly asbestos, not metal. I think SGKent suggested cutting a replacement out of a sheet of high-temp silicone. I was in a hurry so I just liberally coated the rings with red RTV, figuring that would keep it sealed up. They seem to be held in place by the seals you have on order.
I did not re-use the metal sleeves with the asbestos, the vanagon seals seemed to fit perfectly without the sleeve. |
I painted my asbestos rings with a very high temp paint to seal the asbestos. The air inside those bellows gets hot enough to melt things. Do not machine wash the outer cloth that looks like carpet matting. It will fall apart.
This was an aftermarket tube advertised to replace the steel. We went back to the steel.
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Love the picture!
The second rings (inside the tubes) are magnetic, I just checked. Does seem to be covered in something though, so no harm in painting over.
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper
Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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merlinj79
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
The second rings (inside the tubes) are magnetic, I just checked. Does seem to be covered in something though, so no harm in painting over. |
I didn't think to use a magnet. They sure look asbestosy so better safe than sorry.
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Rick
"Pumpkin II"
Stock 2L FI '77 Westy
CA Smog Stuff |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| merlinj79 wrote: |
| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
The second rings (inside the tubes) are magnetic, I just checked. Does seem to be covered in something though, so no harm in painting over. |
I didn't think to use a magnet. They sure look asbestosy so better safe than sorry. |
The metal inserts are galvanized steel, at least that is what I have always assumed they are. The rings are asbestos AFAIK but don't present much of a harzard if you don't grind them up for a living. Coating them with a thin coat of high temperature silicone isn't a bad plan though. |
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Hoody
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Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: |
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For a few bucks you can ditch the entire antiquated set up. Hi temp silicone ducting wrapped in "Mighty-Matt" with silicone sleeves on the ends. If you want some pics how to do it right pm me.
Last edited by Hoody on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mcdonaldneal
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Location: Gullane, Scotland
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Wasted youth
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Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Looks good!  I used large screw-type hose clamps on the outside ends of mine to keep them in place when I was done.
"I might take a deep breath and scrape the asbestos off one of the metal collars to see if its worth adding them in... Or I might not!"
I just kept mine wet while I removed the asbestos, then put all the chunks into sealable bags. To replace the asbestos wrapping, I ordered high temp 1/8" rubber sheeting from my hardware store, and cut to fit. Glued it onto the tin sleeves with contact cement and installed. We'll see if that was the right thing to do...it might get to hot for the material I selected, but I did not want to put the asbestos back in. |
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mcdonaldneal
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chimneyfish
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Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Great work, you totally made the right decision reusing the existing insulation from the centre of the tubes, I did this job and nothing compares to the heat resistance of the German originals. I made sure I kept that insulation, as its unavailable, and glad I did when a repro melted. It is shocking some of the fire hazard sh*t some parts suppliers are selling to customers in the UK.
It was good to see you got hold of the T3/T25 red cuffs, I had originally intended to use those when removing the asbestos cuffs from mine, but ended up using the grey silicon cuffs, VW part number 111-819-945, which are for the Beetle, but they fit and work great for the Type 2 as well.
If you haven't seen these resources on doing the stock heating system refresh already, here are some links, well worth a read:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/freemefromthishell/vw/T2%20Heating.htm - "The Type 2 Heating System explained" (written with Right Hand Drive buses in mind)
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Heating.html - Ratwell's page on the "72-79 Bus Heating System"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535876&start=20 - Official Heater Thread
Here (top) is one of my Type 4 tubes I sourced a new bellows end for and reconditioned, the part number is 113 255 3589 and it is shorter.
Here is a Chinese made repro (for Type 1 upright engines), which with either a hacksaw, or just forcing it to concertina, fits a Type 4. However, this one melted down in 600 miles, as SGKent shows above. (The Chinese repros are useful for cannibalising and cutting down to Type 4 length, as long as people use the original German internal insulation so as to avoid meltdown).
Without checking part numbers, I think your longer tube is an original VW part for a Type 2 with an upright engine. I think you should really have two of the shorter tubes for the Type 4 engine. As said, if you are careful with a standard hacksaw, cutting dead straight through, you can use the (correct) Type 4 bellows as a template alongside the Type 1 bellows, and carefully cut the excess length off the Type 1 longer bellows, the spiral of the 'thread' on the bellows means the end cap should just screw straight on where you have cut.
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1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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mcdonaldneal
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Posts: 2648
Location: Gullane, Scotland
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mcdonaldneal
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suebug
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Joined: April 13, 2006
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Location: The OC, SoCal, with my olympic cats
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| nodrenim wrote: |
| 211 numbers are for type 2 parts and 113 numbers are for type 3 parts, I believe, at least that's what I was once told by a VW parts guru. |
113 parts are Beetle. 311 parts are Type 3.
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