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1FUNBUG
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 599
Location: Waterville, OH
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 Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:14 pm Post subject: can I cut, weld my heat exchangers for modified heads? |
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I could really use some advice from anyone that has had to weld, cut modify these Bus heat exchangers. Basically, I purchased these heads second hand. The step in the exhaust port stud location has been machined to the same level as the opening, for a custom exhaust. I need to find a way to get my heat exchangers to bolt up to them.
Here are some things I’ve pondered…
1. find longer studs and fab some spacers to make up the difference between HE flange and head.
I can’t find the right stud. The heads have an M9/M8 X 60mm stud now. Head is tapped M9.
2. Cut the excess off the heat exchanger.
That will affect how the HE’s bolt to the fan shroud. I don’t think this is doable.
3. Cut the flanges off the HE’s and weld new flanges on to create a mating surface to the head.
Sounds good. The local fab guy thinks the manifold is cast (based on these photos) and is concerned that welding might not be strong enough.
Any advice from firsthand experience is greatly appreciated.
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1FUNBUG
71 Beetle, 1776, dual Kadrons
77 Westy, Camper Special 2.0 F.I. |
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: Custom Exhaust |
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I would contact Chris @ www.tangerineracing.com since he has built a lot
of 914-4 exhaust systems and might have the 1979-1982 flat style flanges
that you could have welded on to your 72-74 heat exchangers.
Yes the flanges are cast and brazed to the pipes
Good Hunting
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V.W.owner since 1967 |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51125
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Or find some 79+ heat exchangers 
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Basically, I purchased these heads second hand. The step in the exhaust port stud location has been machined to the same level as the opening |
1979 and later heads are what you have. You need earlier heads or later heat exchangers.
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1FUNBUG
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 599
Location: Waterville, OH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: |
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are the '79 heat exchangers "square port"?
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1FUNBUG
71 Beetle, 1776, dual Kadrons
77 Westy, Camper Special 2.0 F.I. |
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1FUNBUG
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 599
Location: Waterville, OH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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are the '79 heat exchangers "square port"?
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1FUNBUG
71 Beetle, 1776, dual Kadrons
77 Westy, Camper Special 2.0 F.I. |
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: exhaust flanges |
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Yes the 79 -82 air cooled heads are square port
what was the reasoning for messing up this heads as the exhaust ports
look like someone was experimenting with D-shape 
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: Re: exhaust flanges |
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| old DKP driver wrote: |
Yes the 79 -82 air cooled heads are square port
what was the reasoning for messing up this heads as the exhaust ports
look like someone was experimenting with D-shape |
I agree the port shape seems odd, but i would think that starting with square port manifolds would be easier than starting with oval port manifolds even if an adapter plate is necessary. The OP should get a square port gasket and set it over the studs to see how well it fits the opening. |
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1FUNBUG
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 599
Location: Waterville, OH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: Re: exhaust flanges |
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| old DKP driver wrote: |
Yes the 79 -82 air cooled heads are square port
what was the reasoning for messing up this heads as the exhaust ports
look like someone was experimenting with D-shape |
From what I can tell, this was a machining option when ordering the head.
I'm going to explore getting some '79 heat exchangers first. I'll also email Chris at Tangerine. I'd like to think he could provide some flanges and gaskets if I need to modify the HE's that I have.
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1FUNBUG
71 Beetle, 1776, dual Kadrons
77 Westy, Camper Special 2.0 F.I. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51125
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:50 am Post subject: |
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If you are cutting them up anyways aircooled Vanagons will also provide donor flanges.
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I really don't get it. Why put a square peg in a round hole - why not just sell the heads and get the right ones? Or get the right exchangers?
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject: which cylinder heads? |
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1FUNBUG
How about posting the part number that's is in the rocker box
These are all AMC cylinder heads
square port is 071 101 061 D 2 liter
oval port 022 101 061 G 2 liter
oval port 022 101 361 C 1.8 liter
oval port 021 101 361 K 1.7 liter
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1FUNBUG
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 599
Location: Waterville, OH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: which cylinder heads? |
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| old DKP driver wrote: |
1FUNBUG
How about posting the part number that's is in the rocker box
These are all AMC cylinder heads
square port is 071 101 061 D 2 liter
oval port 022 101 061 G 2 liter
oval port 022 101 361 C 1.8 liter
oval port 021 101 361 K 1.7 liter |
I'm sorry but there are no numbers inside the rocker box on either head. I really need to make these heads work. On the positive side, I won't have to deal with copper sealing rings.
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1FUNBUG
71 Beetle, 1776, dual Kadrons
77 Westy, Camper Special 2.0 F.I. |
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: what Heads? |
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What were the heads sold to you as 
got a picture of the combustion chambers?
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1967250s
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Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 2137
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| How about making an aluminum plate that would mount on the exhaust port with the hole cut out for a proper copper gasket, dab of grease to hold the gasket, mount exh> Or: cut 4 pipes and shape them to the ex manifold, long enough to extend a little past the mount surface, then slip in the copper gasket in the recess, mount it up then. This will leave a lot to be desired: the ports will not be matched up with the oval manifold, so not optimum flow, likely to get build-up, and hot spots. Also,a questio how the shimming would affect the muffler mounting as these would alter the muffler/flange geometry. My 2 pence. |
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Hoody
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Those look like oval port heads that someone effed up try to get square port exchangers to fit or vice versa. Realized they destroyed the heads and then sold them to you with some BS story about a custom exhaust. It will be better and cheaper in the long run to start over with some oval port heads. |
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Joey
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Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have square port heads on my 2L engine in my '74 and I just carefully cut the top oval part off oval port heat exchangers, filed them flat and they bolted up to the square port heads. The exhaust and everything else lines up and fits as it should.
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Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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Hoody
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Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup that's a mod that some people do and does work. But those heads are now neither square nor oval port. Who ever milled those must have been drunk or totally clueless. |
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HAM Inc
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Joined: May 09, 2011
Posts: 161
Location: Watkinsville,GA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Hoody wrote: |
| Yup that's a mod that some people do and does work. But those heads are now neither square nor oval port. Who ever milled those must have been drunk or totally clueless. |
Seriously?!
Since you don't know what the hell you're talking about you should just shut the hell up and stop worrying this poor guy.
The ports are stock sq ports, un-altered in any way from the factory specs. If they are indeed my Camper Special heads then they will have been built to those specs with all port work confined to the bowl area with none done in the the sq port exit where the exhaust bolts up, as the pic shows.
It's amazing to me how many people who have zero experience with something will chime in like they do. It's the single biggest problem with the internet.
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Hoffman Automotive Machine Inc.
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Keith
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Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 3634
Location: Brodheadsville, PA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| I really don't get it. Why put a square peg in a round hole - why not just sell the heads and get the right ones? Or get the right exchangers? |
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