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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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It does not matter what end of the crank you hang weight. If you have a 8 lb flywheel an a 8 lb pulley then you have 16 lbs. If you have a 15 lb flywheel and a 1 lb pulley you still have 16 lb. By splitting the weight you spread the weight across all the bearings and they all last longer. If you put all the weight on one end then that end bearing gets all the abuse. I've never had a Berg pulley leak a drop of oil so I've never had a need for a damn sand seal. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2379 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3467 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Quokka42 wrote: |
I get a bit confused by the online ads - if I am looking for a lighter pulley than the Berg, does anyone know of a full sized pulley with a steel hub to suit a sand seal? |
Jaycee. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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hooker Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004 Posts: 261 Location: Bend, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Quokka42 wrote: |
I get a bit confused by the online ads - if I am looking for a lighter pulley than the Berg, does anyone know of a full sized pulley with a steel hub to suit a sand seal? |
=================================
The last time I bought sand seal pulleys from CB Performance they had the steel sleeve for the sand seal to ride on. The pulleys are slightly smaller that stock size though. _________________ 2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon
I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted.
Last edited by hooker on Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7374
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Yes, most aftermarket pullies are 6 3/4 when the stock size should be 7". CB had a sand seal pulley that was a full 7" with a steel sleeved collar. The Empi etched one has a steel sleeved collar as well but comes in at 6 3/4" The Jay Cee pullies are very nice as well (not sure about the diameter).
On one of my engines I wanted to run a Berg like Achiever pulley but in sand seal and ended up buying one of the clone Empi ones instead of turning down my Berg one. The Empi one is very nice as well-in fact better fit and finish than the Berg and I ended up selling the Berg (although it was just sitting around the quality was there). |
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2379 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:09 am Post subject: |
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74 Thing wrote: |
Yes, most aftermarket pullies are 6 3/4 when the stock size should be 7". CB had a sand seal pulley that was a full 7" with a steel sleeved collar. The Empi etched one has a steel sleeved collar as well but comes in at 6 3/4" The Jay Cee pullies are very nice as well (not sure about the diameter).
On one of my engines I wanted to run a Berg like Achiever pulley but in sand seal and ended up buying one of the clone Empi ones instead of turning down my Berg one. The Empi one is very nice as well-in fact better fit and finish than the Berg and I ended up selling the Berg (although it was just sitting around the quality was there). |
Do you have a photo of the empi pulley? _________________ Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW
02/76 Beetle sedan |
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vugbug68 Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006 Posts: 2696 Location: sacramento
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
It does not matter what end of the crank you hang weight. If you have a 8 lb flywheel an a 8 lb pulley then you have 16 lbs. If you have a 15 lb flywheel and a 1 lb pulley you still have 16 lb. By splitting the weight you spread the weight across all the bearings and they all last longer. If you put all the weight on one end then that end bearing gets all the abuse. I've never had a Berg pulley leak a drop of oil so I've never had a need for a damn sand seal. |
I was discussing this topic with some of the guys at CB performance and they said a heavy pulley may lead to increased wear on the small main bearing, I was surprised because I was actually going to buy their 6lb equalizer pulley and they talked me out of it.
I've never disassembled an engine that had a heavy pulley but I've never heard of anyone having this issue _________________ 71 Super - Backroad Thrasher
66 Corvair - Weekend Cruiser
90 4 Runner - Muddin |
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itHaKa Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2008 Posts: 254 Location: Argentina
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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vugbug68 wrote: |
vwracerdave wrote: |
It does not matter what end of the crank you hang weight. If you have a 8 lb flywheel an a 8 lb pulley then you have 16 lbs. If you have a 15 lb flywheel and a 1 lb pulley you still have 16 lb. By splitting the weight you spread the weight across all the bearings and they all last longer. If you put all the weight on one end then that end bearing gets all the abuse. I've never had a Berg pulley leak a drop of oil so I've never had a need for a damn sand seal. |
I was discussing this topic with some of the guys at CB performance and they said a heavy pulley may lead to increased wear on the small main bearing, I was surprised because I was actually going to buy their 6lb equalizer pulley and they talked me out of it.
I've never disassembled an engine that had a heavy pulley but I've never heard of anyone having this issue |
heavy pully is harder on the crank,and can twist and or break it .you want weight on the power transmiting end,not the non power transmiting end.that just trys to twist the crank uppon shifts&launches. you dont want the flywheel effect on the pully/non power transmiting end of the crank. But berg was a god& Im just a moron. |
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Dr OnHolliday Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2012 Posts: 1215 Location: was Escondido now San Berdoo
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly right - cam twist on V8 engine, especially with stiff springs is well documented. Also flywheel shift on harleys. Everything distorts under load and cranks are no different. The inertia used in drag racing off the line needs to be stored in the flywheel rather than transmitted thru the length of the crank.
mark tucker wrote: |
vugbug68 wrote: |
vwracerdave wrote: |
It does not matter what end of the crank you hang weight. If you have a 8 lb flywheel an a 8 lb pulley then you have 16 lbs. If you have a 15 lb flywheel and a 1 lb pulley you still have 16 lb. By splitting the weight you spread the weight across all the bearings and they all last longer. If you put all the weight on one end then that end bearing gets all the abuse. I've never had a Berg pulley leak a drop of oil so I've never had a need for a damn sand seal. |
I was discussing this topic with some of the guys at CB performance and they said a heavy pulley may lead to increased wear on the small main bearing, I was surprised because I was actually going to buy their 6lb equalizer pulley and they talked me out of it.
I've never disassembled an engine that had a heavy pulley but I've never heard of anyone having this issue |
heavy pully is harder on the crank,and can twist and or break it .you want weight on the power transmiting end,not the non power transmiting end.that just trys to twist the crank uppon shifts&launches. you dont want the flywheel effect on the pully/non power transmiting end of the crank. But berg was a god& Im just a moron. |
_________________ 1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust |
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Quokka42 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010 Posts: 3117 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
It does not matter what end of the crank you hang weight. If you have a 8 lb flywheel an a 8 lb pulley then you have 16 lbs. If you have a 15 lb flywheel and a 1 lb pulley you still have 16 lb. By splitting the weight you spread the weight across all the bearings and they all last longer. If you put all the weight on one end then that end bearing gets all the abuse. I've never had a Berg pulley leak a drop of oil so I've never had a need for a damn sand seal. |
Sorry, it makes a big difference. 1lb at 3" is hugely different to 1lb at 5" and there are some great articles on balancing around, try http://johnmaherracing.com/2013/01/project-2110-part-4-dynamic-balancing/
Berg's heavy pulleys are meant to be a form of harmonic damper, but would be far more effective if they had a rubber piece between the inside and outside diameters. Not opposed to them, but a high revving engine is better off with a light and strong pulley.
Special thanks to itHaKa and others who answered my question, I hope it isn't considered hijacking. No thanks to the drivel - my favourite is the "twist the end off the crank" story, a sure sign that someone is regurgitating stuff they have read without understanding. _________________ There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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c.ruber Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2005 Posts: 634 Location: Mid TN
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the input. I've been running the Berg equalizer and have had mixed feelings about it. I'm not into bling and would rather go with function over aesthetics any day. I'm also running a quality crank and feel that crank twist should be considered. I want to try a different pulley and will be looking into a quality replacement for the equalizer. Thank you. _________________ ...and progress is not intelligently planned... |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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scat&cb have very nice pullys,Im contemplating the cb billet oe lookalike aluminum pully for my 356 engine(2387cc or larger) |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen a crank snout get beat up by the heavy pulley twice.
The instructions say use locktite and use heavy duty bolt/washer and torque the bolt higher, and of course not on a iron crank, follow the instructions and should be ok, but it does happen. |
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Quokka42 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010 Posts: 3117 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck. The CB with a steel hub looks the best, but I haven't tried one. There aren't many decent hubs out there except the steel ones as most have aluminium at the outer or inner surface of the hub, or are power pulley size, and there is a dearth of information on most. _________________ There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5291 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Surprized nobody said 'Fisher' _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Quokka42 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010 Posts: 3117 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:59 am Post subject: |
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madmike wrote: |
Surprized nobody said 'Fisher' |
Want one - even if it ends up on my wall! _________________ There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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Steve Arndt Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 1777 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Quokka42 wrote: |
madmike wrote: |
Surprized nobody said 'Fisher' |
Want one - even if it ends up on my wall! |
Here is mine:
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Sharig1979 Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2008 Posts: 280 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Never seen one of those. Interesting. _________________ 1968 Beetle, Class 11 build
1969 Beetle, New build. 1915 Turbo, EFI.
1969 Beetle, *Old build. 1915 Turbo.
~118 mph on the salt at WoS 2012, 7k in 3rd, can't wait to figure out how to drive that engine on that stuff.
1972 914/4, 1.7
1977 911S 2.7
1991 GTI 1.8 8v, 4speed-Sold |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:54 am Post subject: |
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They were discontinued because at $350 very few sold. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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