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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:28 pm Post subject: rockers binding |
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has anyone else had an issues with the new bugpack ratio 1.4 rockers binding? feels like something is machined right, i get a tight spot when i bolt them down and run them through there movement... its not catching the head anywhere as i clearance that already.
i'll get there but its taking alot of sanding on a flat surface to make these get close to working....
a mill and lathe would make things easier! _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2233 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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there are shim packs containing variable widths that you can also use to further fine-tune the rocker assembly. I went the lathe route with my SCAT 1.25s - (plus using other shims - - - always a bonus to have a wide assortment. )
jGood luck, and have fun.
Rev. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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i know someone with a lathe i might try and see if i can true them up a bit....
your right, would be nice to have more shims.... although mine all vary from about 0.69mm to 0.83mm _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2233 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think you need to diversify that portfolio a bit. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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tobiism Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2004 Posts: 502 Location: Chandler AZ
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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make sure that the bottom of the rockers are not binding on the rocker block in the head _________________ "There has never been a genius without a hint of madness."
-Albert Einstein |
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SRP1 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 4340
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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tobiism wrote: |
make sure that the bottom of the rockers are not binding on the rocker block in the head |
X2
The Bugpack rockers are not clearanced enough on the bottom side, so they bind up on the rocker mounting pedestal on the head....
Remove the rockers, pull the rocker from the shaft, and sand/polish away some material until they clear....Or just send them back and buy some better rockers from someone like CB....
Also as said above they need to be re-shimed, their shimmed like shit from the manufacturer.... Have not seen a set yet that was even close out of the box. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: rockers binding |
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andy198712 wrote: |
has anyone else had an issues with the new bugpack ratio 1.4 rockers binding? feels like something is machined right, i get a tight spot when i bolt them down and run them through there movement... its not catching the head anywhere as i clearance that already.
i'll get there but its taking alot of sanding on a flat surface to make these get close to working....
a mill and lathe would make things easier! |
look like something isnt machined square.... i coloured in the rocker sides with pen and a small bit rubbed off in a small spot.... if that makes sense? showing either a high spot or something not square.... little more clearance needed.
set of pauters would be nice! _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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the shaft has to be on right too as the holes have a small side and a big side for the stud to properly locate them, you may also have some tuching a head stud,I think#1&4 ex & #2&3 intake rockers can contact the head studs if there a bit long. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
the shaft has to be on right too as the holes have a small side and a big side for the stud to properly locate them, you may also have some tuching a head stud,I think#1&4 ex & #2&3 intake rockers can contact the head studs if there a bit long. |
Head are off the engine, big side to the push rods, shinny side to the valve _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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??? big side?? shiney side?? not the offset. the hole is counterbored on 1 side of both holes in each shaft.if there used and the shiney side your refering to is where it has been wore shiney that side gos tward the crankenshafter, or tward the middle or tward the valves or away from the valvecover. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:43 am Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
??? big side?? shiney side?? not the offset. the hole is counterbored on 1 side of both holes in each shaft.if there used and the shiney side your refering to is where it has been wore shiney that side gos tward the crankenshafter, or tward the middle or tward the valves or away from the valvecover. |
sorry ment skinny side.
AHHHH so the holes drilled in the shaft are similar to the holes drilled in the mounting blocks, IE one side is larger then the other so they slide down over the bugpack rocker studs?
will have a look at this _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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yup thats what I ment...peperment patties,hmm must be time for girl scout cookies.
also if instaled upside down they may be hard to remove.(due to forcing them down on the shank of the stud,Ive seen some studs deformed from this) not all studs will have an interfearance issue and you can flip wore shafts to gain a new wear serface. the cr studs are pretty tough, the oe studs are pretty soft. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:32 am Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
yup thats what I ment...peperment patties,hmm must be time for girl scout cookies.
also if instaled upside down they may be hard to remove.(due to forcing them down on the shank of the stud,Ive seen some studs deformed from this) not all studs will have an interfearance issue and you can flip wore shafts to gain a new wear serface. the cr studs are pretty tough, the oe studs are pretty soft. |
mine seem to get stuck down either way i tried....
i'm putting it down to the casting in the head or angle of the drilling for the stud or the studs, or blocks off center... something wasnt machined right but i got there in the end, just another head to go! probably same old again!
do you get chocolat borbons in the US? _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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just about to have another go at these.... _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: |
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I spent considerable effort to shim and get mine just right. After reading some posts (I think Modok) about the blocks that support the shaft not being square, I set out to check. Mine 'looked' square, but were not. The sides that ran against the shims would rub at one spot and show .040 on the other side of the shaft. I bought the shim kit from John and ACN as it is for the larger diameter bug pack rocker shaft and initially thought it had too many thick shims and not enough of the thin ones. After machining the blocks square I used a pretty even amount of thin and thick to set them up. On mine the holes for the mount studs were square to the base, but I would check that as well as it could bind thing when you finally torque them down. I was able to get everything square and spaced correctly with a large sharp file and a good square. If I had to do it over I would get the CB or Scat but sometimes we have what we have right? |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: |
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esde wrote: |
I spent considerable effort to shim and get mine just right. After reading some posts (I think Modok) about the blocks that support the shaft not being square, I set out to check. Mine 'looked' square, but were not. The sides that ran against the shims would rub at one spot and show .040 on the other side of the shaft. I bought the shim kit from John and ACN as it is for the larger diameter bug pack rocker shaft and initially thought it had too many thick shims and not enough of the thin ones. After machining the blocks square I used a pretty even amount of thin and thick to set them up. On mine the holes for the mount studs were square to the base, but I would check that as well as it could bind thing when you finally torque them down. I was able to get everything square and spaced correctly with a large sharp file and a good square. If I had to do it over I would get the CB or Scat but sometimes we have what we have right? |
indeed we do!
yeah thats my thoughts, that something or more then one thing isn't square, thus causing a bind or tight spot at a set angle, but not all of the rotation...
odd 19.4mm shaft also makes things more interesting with shims, as you can only use there shims, sneaky
need a good square to check it all i guess, will have to dig mine out!
thanks for the help though! nice to know i'm not alone _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Bucpack make a lot of good quality parts and I use a lot of their products. Unfortunately their ratio rockers suck and I won't use them. SCAT or CB are all I use since Berg quit making theirs. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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I use the bugpoop knock offs for less than $100.then totaly rework them. be sure to use real shims not valvespring shims that are ment to not slip/rotate. empi has some good shims,there made from the hardened spring steel like they should be. I bought the bugpoop ones and threw them away when I saw what they sent me.then tried the empi ones.
also the rockers can contact the head studs at the #2&3intakes& 1&4 exhaust rockers.
Ive had some rocker blocks that looked like they were cut off by hand with a band saw or hacksaw. Ive even got some that had the top hole sloted so it fit offset&non offset rockers...yes they were new.(CIP1 shit) When reserfacing them you need to go off the mounting face&the shaft centerline to machine them straight. ( Ive seen very few that were square&none that had all the same size blocks,cb scat,bugpoop,empi&the knockoffs and of corse the CIP JUNK. the cb's were good & square but too wide.they probably had the best quality then the scat.
just be sure to get it right befor using it if it has a high spot it will kill the parts all of the thrust will be concentrated in one little spot witch will over stress&over heat that spot. If you have to use a thin shim always try to put it between two thicker shims or atleast agnist a thicker shim,Ive seen single thin shims deform,gauld&tear.that dont work so good. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Cheers for the help mark, how do you square off the blocks?
Cheers _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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spent hours today shading shims ect and eventually got my side clearance between 0.005 and 0.007in
thing with the BP kit is all the shims are about the same size....
pleased it's all done though! _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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