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TonyPgh
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Joined: May 31, 2008
Posts: 1465
Location: Pa.
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:09 pm Post subject: Checking out a Ghia...Buyer' Guide |
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I have owned many Beetles.
But Saturday I will be checking out my first Ghia. It's a 1973 Coupe, if that helps.
Anyone have any advice on what bad spots to look for?
He told me the floor pans are in new condition, but the rockers/heater channels are going to need repaired. So that I know.
Anything different from beetles I need to check. I know to check the Napoleons hat, and the front beam. Any other problem areas on these to check for? I just don't want to miss something. Thanks guys!
I hope this is decent. I have wanted one for a while.
I do see some rust on the nose. |
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ivwshane
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Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1920
Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Personally I'd look for any signs of an accident, body filler, rust by the horn boot, and battery tray.
Unless you've got skills or lots of money or hook ups, rusted rocker channels are a dead deal for me.
So really it boils down to; what can your skills fix and how much are you willing to put into body work?
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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John Moxon 
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13955
Location: Southampton U.K.
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 am Post subject: |
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The #1 thing to look for is signs of rust and of poor quality repairs being done to hide the problem areas.
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Above the head lights. There isn't an inner wheel well splash panel so as one drives debris collects on top of the headlight buckets and on the fresh air ducts inside the wheel well also.
Quite simply, it rusts.
People putty and repair this area quite poorly. Using a magnet Make sure that it is metal above the headlights.
quality repair!  ....
*********
Behind the rear wheels. Another debris collection point, severe rust forms......
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The battery tray in the engine compartment. Just like the Beetles, it rusts away from the acid...... also the rear apron often joins suit!.....
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Engine lid. Poor design = bottom edge of the lid rots away.
Picture is dark but you can see the rust above the bumper, I'll look for a better photo......
better photo.....
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Below the headlamp, debris collects on the parking lamp assembly, yep, rust!
Behind the headlight......
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Front lid. Front edge by the latch, particularly the front corners. There are drain holes provided. They clog up, water and debris sits trapped by the lip and the rubber....... Rust!
debris......
and rust....
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Doors. Clogged door drains result in the door bottoms rusting away.......
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Behind the front wheels. There is a metal splash panel held in with a screw and has a rubber seal around it to keep out debris. The rubber gets compromised, the debris and moisture collect behind the panel and up above the panels "finger" ........ Guess what?  Rust!
LF Splash area, (in front of drivers feet)......
Outside view of same area.......
Here are two new splash panels with the "fingers" ready to be installed.......
**********
Of course the floor pans rust, just like the Beetles do. Check them carefully.
Also the frame head / Napoleons Hat.
Floor Pans.......
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And the worst one of all? The heater/rocker panels!
I think the designers of this system were sleeping at the switch! They designed multiple panels all being joined by spot welds at the bottom. An upside down tear drop that collects rain water, condensation and road debris! A perfectly designed rust pocket!
A cross section drawing of the construction ........
Cut open rocker...... The round pipe was a wire conduit not found on newer units......
My heater /rocker channels!
Notice mine has extra panels in the cross section. One extra is legit, Convertibles have an extra stiffener...... But additionally some prevIous PO in a misguided attempt to 'fix" the rust installed a new Rocker panel OVER THE RUSTED ROCKER PANEL!!!!! Yes, it looked better but......... 
The kicker is, these rust inside first, exterior last! If you see ANY exterior paint bubbles........ The rockers are gone inside! No exceptions!
Use your strong magnet to verify that the Rockers are metal and nor Bondo smeared over screen or Aluminum flashing!
Innocent looking bubbles aren't they?....
More Paint Bubbles......
Rocker cut open.......
..................
I'll find some photos of each area and edit them in for you.
The mechanicals are all Type 1 Beetle. No worries, east to fix.
Of course it goes without saying to look for signs of severe accidents having happened in the past.....
Wrinkled metal...... tell tale sign of an accident......
Here is a unit that had something happen in the rear, accident? rust? who knows?
But...... the fix was lots of body putty! Here is what happens after a few years......
A Ghia in the North East...... LOOK VERY VERY THROUGHLY FOR SIGNS OF RUST AND RUST REPAIRS / COVERUPS.
Of course, the amount that you are spending on the unit, your skills, the time you are willing to invest, etc, all come into play on how many of the rust problems that you are willing to bring home.
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
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Last edited by djkeev on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:49 am; edited 12 times in total |
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NOVA Airhead
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Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:28 am Post subject: |
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The Karmann Ghia Rust Guide
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Ghia Owner Emeritus |
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akear
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Joined: August 18, 2013
Posts: 359
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Great advice and pics in these posts. This should be a "buying guide" sticky. |
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John Moxon
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13955
Location: Southampton U.K.
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CiderGuy
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Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Bring a magnet when you look at the car. Even a car that looks good can be full of Bondo with rust underneath it. Don't ask me how I know this ... |
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TonyPgh
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Joined: May 31, 2008
Posts: 1465
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. Gives me some ideas. Here's a link to the ad:
Maybe I better take a jack, and go over it very well.
Something looks funny in front of the back seat. Unless it is just the photo.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/4365032316.html
. |
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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NOVA Airhead
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Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:42 am Post subject: |
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That car will need a lot of work. If you are interested in a project that is what you are looking at. You will need to have some good welding skills and the facility to work on the car.
It looks like someone tried to pull the nose with one of those tools that you screw into a panel and then there is a weight that you slide to pull it out. The front has a line of holes across it. What a mess it will be to fix that.
It would be good to know what metal the seller has - for example does it include new nose panels and rocker/heater channel? Those pieces are very expensive.
You could probably spend $1K on sheet metal alone for that car so the $1,600 price might be Ok depending on what it has. A new repro nose panel is $600.
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Gwdghiaguy
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Joined: December 06, 2013
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Location: Greenwood, SC
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TonyPgh
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Joined: May 31, 2008
Posts: 1465
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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He was willing to go between $1000-1200. He don't have rockers for it. He said some extra bumpers....etc. I only have a flux core welder, and I am terrible with welding...LOL
I think I may back away. It does look rough I suppose. |
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David Follett
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Joined: May 10, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Media, PA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: Checking a Ghia |
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Wow. Excellent feed back and information. Wish I had looked last year before I bought my '69. I knew it had been bumped all over but no idea of the hidden areas to check.
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Present VW-'69 Ghia Coupe
Former VW's & a few others:
Type 1-'69 Type 1 Rat Rod, '69, '63, '60, '62, '55?? split window in Germany, US Army 1964-66, '64 Baja Bug w/1500S Type 3 engine. Ghia '62, '66.
Type 2- '67 Dual Cab
'?? Vanagon
412 wagen
Dasher wagen
Jetta-GLI, VR6, Golf
TR2,TR3, Austin Healy 3000, MGTD, Porsche Speedster & 3 Model A Fords. Almost forgot-Corvair & Nash Mertopolitan |
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Rbfara
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Joined: November 10, 2013
Posts: 131
Location: New York state
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject: So useful! |
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Thanks gentlemen (and or ladies)! All of this information and expertise is priceless and just in time! I'm looking for a 60's vert and all of the the time you've put in here is remarkably helpful. Many issues and advice were new to me.
Thanks again! |
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Scott@KGPR
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Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 92
Location: VENTURA, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: Karmannn Ghia Buyers Guide |
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I don’t spend much time on theSamba, but I went on today to look at something Ghia related and found several of my photos and a drawing from both an article I wrote 20 years ago and some general Ghia tech we provide at either www.karmannghia.com or at www.airheadparts.com . The Ghia buyers article can be found at http://www.airheadparts.com//sizing-up-a-karmann-ghia-for-restoration. This information comes from owning over 100 Ghias and restoring more than 20. Now I just concentrate on supplying quality parts (a much harder job). Of which I have managed to produce over 600 parts for Ghias in my 25 years of doing this (and still adding more).
[mod edit] see web archive for the buyers guide.... here....
http://web.archive.org/web/20140715092249/http://w...storation/
It’s not a problem (or plagiarizing) IF KGPR gets the credit. So please, use what I have put out there to help the community, just include “courtesy of KGPR” (or Airhead Parts).
Thanks, Scott Dempster - KGPR Inc
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Scott Dempster
www.karmannghia.com
(AKA, "The Ghia Guy") |
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John Moxon
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13955
Location: Southampton U.K.
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Scott@KGPR
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 92
Location: VENTURA, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Thanks John!
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Scott Dempster
www.karmannghia.com
(AKA, "The Ghia Guy") |
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Kiwinw
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2014
Posts: 58
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Have some questions as I'm looking to buy a daily driver and mostly focusing on the pre 69 (I like the lines of the front turn lights etc, vs the 70's models). Also focusing on a coupe.
1. Were there deluxe and standard Ghia's?
2. I see multiple differences in steering wheels. Color is one thing, but that additional horn section (that curves with half of the steering wheel) - is this original and how they should be?
3. Was the exterior side chrome moulding on all coupes? I see many for sale without, or any evidence of it.
4. Seats, low vs high back - hard to tell when this changed and whats original?
5. Did all Ghia's have the top dash cover? I see many without this and just the metal dash. Is this a hard item to find as a replacement.
6. I think I also noticed that 68 got front disc brakes which may make this a good year to get?
Thanks in advance. Looking at a few now and although I can check overall condition (thanks to this site's guidance and info) - I don't want to find I'm missing a bunch of parts that need up costing me much more than I'd anticipated.
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I need a long camper side WINDOW for a 66 Riviera - please let me know if you have one!
1975 Westfalia
1967 Westfalia
1966 Riviera
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13955
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Kiwinw wrote: |
Have some questions as I'm looking to buy a daily driver and mostly focusing on the pre 69 (I like the lines of the front turn lights etc, vs the 70's models). Also focusing on a coupe.
1. Were there deluxe and standard Ghia's?
2. I see multiple differences in steering wheels. Color is one thing, but that additional horn section (that curves with half of the steering wheel) - is this original and how they should be?
3. Was the exterior side chrome moulding on all coupes? I see many for sale without, or any evidence of it.
4. Seats, low vs high back - hard to tell when this changed and whats original?
5. Did all Ghia's have the top dash cover? I see many without this and just the metal dash. Is this a hard item to find as a replacement.
6. I think I also noticed that 68 got front disc brakes which may make this a good year to get?
Thanks in advance. Looking at a few now and although I can check overall condition (thanks to this site's guidance and info) - I don't want to find I'm missing a bunch of parts that need up costing me much more than I'd anticipated. |
1. All Ghias were Deluxe...handbuilt with no shortcuts.
2. The half-hornring is an early feature of the '57>'59 Ghia. Check out the owners manuals in the archive to view the differences in steering wheels: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/ghia.php
3. All Ghias had side moulding/trim. I'm someone who believes they are an integral part of the design. They are often removed when a car is repainted and not replaced. Often it can be a sign that a car has had a bondo skim to hide imperfections in an inadequate restoration.
4. Again check out the owners manuals on the type of seat on offer for specific years.
5. No the early Ghias didn't have a dash cover until Jan 1959. There were various styles of dash and dash covers but many, when restoring their Ghias like the look of the early plain metal dash.
6. Disc brakes from Aug 66 onwards. '69 Model year got IRS and is a plus to some but yes '68 is a good year.
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My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
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