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Rev. Scott
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 770
Location: Philo, Ca.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:41 pm Post subject: Clutch(?) woes... |
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'69 type I, 1600 DP, new solid disc friction plate, new Sachs pressure plate (earballed to eighteen pounds), new front shift rod bushing, new shift coupler...Hooks-up in reverse, slips in 1 through four. Turn the cable adjuster out (two clicks) wont go into gear at all. Late, raining, and I'm tired...so I didn't try to split the difference. Pedal feels right. Help?
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rustybusjef
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2011
Posts: 329
Location: EVERETT WASHINGTON
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Was everything perfectly clean ? No extra grease from the pilot bearing ? Does your Bowden tube have enough deflection ? Cable guides in tunnel ok ? |
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Clutch(?) woes... |
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| Rev. Scott wrote: |
| 'Sachs pressure plate (earballed to eighteen pounds), |
Is this something you did ?? earballed or earbailed ???
or is this what was claimed by the parts house in their
advertisement/description of the pressure plate ???
The pressure plate is not fully engaging on the clutch disk with
the proper pressure to the flywheel ??
If you have the correct free play at the pedal, it should not slip
in any gear, especially with new parts.....it should be fully engaged
with the correct free play
afraid you are going to have to pull out and establish the problem...
doubt if it is going get better
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Rev. Scott
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 770
Location: Philo, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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"earballed", meaning, I torqued the pressure plate by hand...Don't have a torque wrench. This usually works. Clutch cable is free. Bowden has a bend.
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Rev. Scott wrote: |
| "earballed", meaning, I torqued the pressure plate by hand...Don't have a torque wrench. This usually works. Clutch cable is free. Bowden has a bend. |
ok, I now understand  never herd this expression before
did you progressively "earballed" the pressure plate bolts....??
sort of like in a sequence each bolt a little at a time crossing
back and forth between them ?? one can warp the pressure plate
especially on the old 180mm pp.
sounds like everything is correct, but something is not correct ??
still afraid you are going to have to take back out and inspect ??
I am very curious on this....???
(I am also assuming you installed the clutch disk(not upside down))
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70 Baja Street Rod Project
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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so the clutch/pp are the only things changed from your earlier set up? What was the issue with the previous clutch?
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rockurob
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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Auto Fraser
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Previous clutch was slipping, bad. Put a different (used) one in and it wasn't engaging properly. At the same time we noticed the bushing in the shift linkage was busted. We ordered a new clutch and bushing, and installed. Now we're having the current predicament of slipping through all four, not reverse. |
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58Dub
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Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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IF the adjustment is correct and your tube is good....and you are having the same issue with a new clutch disc and PP as you did with the old... I would be looking at the flywheel.
Was this car recently purchased?... or do you have history of the clutch operating properly?
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Auto Fraser
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: |
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The car has been around for as long as I can remember. I blew up the 1600 dp that was in it fairly recently so we have it swapped out for a 1500 sp that has been sitting in the garage for a while. It ran fine for a week or two before the clutch started slipping. The motor looks like you might expect from something thats been sitting in a garage. Im new at this so I don't really know what I'm looking at as much as I'd like to.
I'll check out the flywheel this weekend. What should I be looking for on it? |
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rockurob
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Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Okla City, Oklahoma
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31352
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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If I had a slipping clutch, I would always have the flywheel resurfaced or replaced, and new pressure plate and disc; this is not just "throw in a new disc because I'm in there" maintenance.
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Rev. Scott
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Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 770
Location: Philo, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Some clarity (I hope)..."Auto Fraser", in this thread, is my son and it is his car we are pondering. The "backup motor" is a crappy old thang, but it chugs along. The clutch it had worked just fine...but started slipping. The throwout and arm are newish and of quality. No leaks at the seal. Flywheel (200mm) could be freshened...but I've gotten down the road with worse.
Again...two "clicks" out and it grinds in every gear, two "clicks" in and it slips. 'Splain the bowden please? It looks to have the correct "sag". Maybe I have this wrong. Also questioning if I may have over torqued the pressure plate, but this not the first clutch job I've done.
Thanx for all the feedback!
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58Dub
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Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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hmmm...Ive never used a torque wench when installing a PP..... I really doubt that is causing your issue. It the TO bearing isnt holding it ....Id measure the flywheel and clutch disk.... one of them has to be bad. when you say its a solid disc ...is this a stock type clutch disk or a Puck type?
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Rev. Scott
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Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 770
Location: Philo, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Wolfgang "stock" friction plate.
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58Dub
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Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Rev. Scott wrote: |
| Wolfgang "stock" friction plate. |
since you are into one of these odd issues, I think I would pull it and measure everything. For some reason, you arent getting enough squeeze in there.
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jhoefer
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Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 987
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Rev. Scott wrote: |
| Again...two "clicks" out and it grinds in every gear, two "clicks" in and it slips. |
Sounds to me like you don't have enough travel at the throwout bearing. Going in, it's probably not letting the throwout bearing release all the way so the pressure plate won't have full clamping force (and will burn up the throwout bearing). Going out, you have full clamping force but not enough travel to fully disengage the clutch so it's still spinning the trans preventing the synchros from working right. The adjustment range shouldn't be that narrow in either case. Some possibilities: cross shaft forks broken, clutch release arm too long, cable tube inside tunnel broken loose, hook on pedal failing, cable stretching and near failure, pedal stop incorrectly set resulting in limited pedal travel.
That's assuming there isn't something wrong the the clutch/pp/fw, wrong dimensions, etc. |
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Rev. Scott
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Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 770
Location: Philo, Ca.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Going to play with the Bowden tomorrow...
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Rev. Scott
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Posts: 770
Location: Philo, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Bump...with a hail Mary.
Bowden checks out okay. Mounts all look good. Read the forums till my eyes crossed. Almost too much play at the pedal. This car can do burnouts in reverse...but all forward gears slip to the point that the car wont move! WTF?
The initial problem was slipping (after working fine for some time). Replaced clutch with known good Kennedy (bit overkill) But it was grinding or slipping. Bought everything new just to know it was all new. Same problem, not disengaging in FORWARD gears. GAH! Somebody please talk slow and simple to me?
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66brm
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Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 3676
Location: Perth Western Australia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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STOP doing burnouts in reverse or you will be busy changing out the transmission. Its time to pull the engine and have a measure of everything, also have your flywheel ground properly to improve your chances
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