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covdubguys new rail project
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covdubguy
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Joined: May 31, 2012
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Location: Centennial Colorado
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject: covdubguys new rail project Reply with quote

Well I drank all the cool aid and them some. Found and new frame on CL for $700 and couldn't pass it up. Its a berrien warrior Ball joint front IRS rear. I have been looking at pics ad reading as much as I can over the last month.
First lets go over the parts list that that I know I want to do
1 - 3x3 rear suspension non coil over.
2 - berrien brace Kit (all ready have just need to install)
3 - hydraulic pedals
4 - wiring and lighting
5 - mid travel front suspension

My skill sets...
general welding and fab are ok.
I LOVE wiring....I know im sick and twisted

After reading and searching I have answered most of my question. Only one major one left..... and it is the front suspension. To me its seems that a BJ front end can be lifted and beefed up but not really a big gain in travel. I understand that thing spindles will raise the front end up and get maybe 2" more travel. I want to get about 12-14 total like the KP suspension.
so can I use a BJ front end to gain this much travel or do I need to start thinking about cutting and welding a LP front beam in.

And the pics...
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Vanapplebomb
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice frame. I like Berrien's stuff a lot. I have a 295 frame from them. It is basically the same as a warrior. The brace kits are nice. They stiffen up the frame a lot which is good if you plan on making a woods buggy, or make some mean jumps at the sand dunes. This is what it looks like...

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As for your front end, 12-14 inches? Yikes! Sounds like you are in the market for 4 inch longer arms and combo spindles at the very least. The 4 inch over arms require coil over shocks, which are very expensive. Expect to pay upwards of 200 bucks per shock. Add in the cost of the 4 inch longer arms, combo spindles, center load rack and pinion...it adds up fast. You would also have to modify the front of your frame if you convert to a link pin beam since the parallel beams are closer together than those on ball joint front ends. BugZyla makes a conversion beam which mounts into frames set up for ball joint front ends, but can use link pin arms.

What do you plan on driving over that you would need 12-14 inches of travel for with such a light weight buggy?

Truth be told, for as light of a front end as most sand rails have, stock beams work pretty well. Stock for stock, ball joint beams are actually stronger and have more travel than link pin beams. If you want to upgrade in the future, link pin beams are really the only way to go. All the aftermarket performance parts are designed for them, and for good reason too. They are easy to modify for strength and travel. Even a stock beam with stock arms can be modified from its humble 5.5 inches of travel, to a solid 8 to 9 inches with very little work or money. Cutting and turning and moving the bump stops is free if you know how to weld. Extending the shock towers will only set you back what some cold rolled steel bar stock will cost. Heck, if you have a welder and an angle grinder, you can nearly double the amount of travel on the stock beam for only a few bucks if you have fab skills. Wink
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Vanapplebomb
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, if you wan't to see what some beefed up ball joint beams can handle, YouTube some Class 9 Buggies that run the Baja, or similar off road races. You will be amazed at hot much they can handle when set up right.

Welcome to the Forums!
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

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covdubguy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to get into off road racing. Colorado off road extreme is an hour east of me. Also I want to go on some of 4x4 trails in the mountains. I checked out bugzyla, that stuff looks interesting.
I understand cutting and turning, thing arms but I have never seen (not that I've looked) extending the ball joint shock towers, I'll check that out. I think that I could deal Laughing with 10" or so of travel. I can fab up most things.... I hope.

I am also looking for as many ideas on front bumpers too.

Thanks for the input and keep the ideas coming......
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Vanapplebomb
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Extending the ball joint shock towers would be fruitless. The travel is limited by the ball joints, so the use of shock with longer travel won't help you any.

If you are going to pound on a ball joint beam, hook and rod stops will be your friend. I highly recommend them.

Here is a front bumper idea for you. Single bar bumper from Berrien Buggy...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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covdubguy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: In the garage Reply with quote

so after 4 months of waiting and doing honey do's, I get to do my stuff. I have the rail in the garage and started taking it down. The trailing arms are off, trans is out.

The goal with this setup is to get as much travel as I can. I want to setup everything so when I become rich and famous I can get rid of the torsion bars and go coil over with some ease. I know its not that easy, but if i make some design choices now that will hopefully save some energy down the road.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1 - Should I cut this off after the first brace that goes up to my frame?
2 - I have a 74 Bus that has a great motor and trans, I am thinking about pulling it to use in the buggy. (the bus is the next project for a full restore) I was thinking just putting it in with out the 10 degree mount. What do you all think about that. I know that I would need to raise the shifter to match the height.
3 - List of parts for the rear end
trailing arms-Have them
stub axels - need
axels/cv's - need
bushings - need
bearings - need
shocks - need
mounts - need
anything else I am forgetting?
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Brian
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: In the garage Reply with quote

covdubguy wrote:
... so when I become rich and famous...



I think we're all waiting this to come around our way. Laughing

But why take out the bus train? I would get something built up for the rail to fit the needs.
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covdubguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bus trans should be 002. That should make a great off road trans. And the motor was rebuilt about 12k miles ago. It will push the bus over any pass here in colorado at 55 in forth gear. So I am thinking that it has some pretty good power. I am going to strip down the bus for its 1st remodel I mean restore and I don't want the motor to just sit there for 2 years while I do it. Oh and I don't want to put it back in, I am jumping ship to Subaru power. So that's the way to long story of why I want a type 4 motor and trans in my new buggy.
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covdubguy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Are these new arms installed correct? Reply with quote

so I have the new trailing arms installed. Are they installed the right way? I have installed them both ways and I am not sure which way is correct. I have looked for others install and have seen them both ways. The arms are from latest rage. I have looked for destruction and have not found any.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I am starting to think about the way to mount the rear shocks. The lower bracket I have leans to the outside. How bad is this.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I am currently looking for a tubing bender and notcher and as soon as i get one i will mock up the upper mount and post a pic for everyone thoughts.
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