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Installed jet doctors now it's dogging .
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dirtkeeper
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Installed jet doctors now it's dogging . Reply with quote

After chasing down some gremlins as in loose manifold, Loose spark plug dirty jets I had my car running pretty well . To keep the idle jets clean I installed jet doctors on my 40 idfs and it seems I messed something else up the process. So I get it to idle really nice and it runs ok in the low rpms but between 2500 and 3500 where it's ussually pulling strong is flogging it. And especially under load. Now all the other problems I had been having had to do with the idle circuit where this seems to be more In the main. I reset the carbs after The jet doctors

What I did was
installed the jet doctors
Changed one carb gasket. I used the gasket I had with the weber kit that i had . It was different than the one that came out. The one that came out had the gasket covering the bowl and the new one didn't. I read on a thread here that it didn't matter. And I also saw at aircooled.net the gaskets are differnt with the one that covers the bowl specifically for the 40 and the one that is open for the 44. So I don't know if that is of concern.

I also changed the Bakelite base on the fuel pump and installed 2 new gaskets that came with it Which were the same. Again the one that came off had the full paper on the top gasket.

Any ideas where to look first. I got spark and gas , timing ,


Did I mess up the floats?

78.8 x 90.5
engle 100 cam
stock heads with some mild port and polish
low compression i think in the 7.2 : 1 area but not positive
dual webers 40's w/ 120 m, 200 air and 50 idle
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a good possibility the gasket you use is covering the air passages for the idle circuit.
If you look the jet doctors are not in line with the air passages in carb body, there is a off set to them. Look at the gasket, you may have to cut holes in it because it covering the passages.
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Art Thraen
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I HAVE RESORED THOUSANDS OF IDF CARBS, I DO NOT LIKE THE JET DOCTORS.
The OEM weber boosters work best.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art,
Can you go into a little more detail about why you don't like the Jet Doctors?
I have found them very helpful for keeping crap out of idle circuits that gets passed the air filters in vehicle used in dirty air conditions.
I am very interested in your findings on the subject.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Weber boosters".... Never heard of them.... Need details...

Dale
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Art is thinking of the DRLA spray bars that replace the stock booster (update kit), not the idle air extension tubes used for the IDF (jet doctor).
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brake line does it for about 3 bucks.

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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
Brake line does it for about 3 bucks.


Do you use the o ring on the bottom?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope just slightly enlarge carb top hole and JB welded in place. Five minute job per carb.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Art coming back to explain his dislike for them?
I am really interested in what he has to say and anyone else that has experienced problems with them.
One thing someone once told me that they experienced a lean condition in the idle circuit. There was not information backing up their claim, so I have no idea if it was true or they had another problem and blamed it on the jet doctors.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
Is Art coming back to explain his dislike for them?
I am really interested in what he has to say and anyone else that has experienced problems with them.
One thing someone once told me that they experienced a lean condition in the idle circuit. There was not information backing up their claim, so I have no idea if it was true or they had another problem and blamed it on the jet doctors.


Dave who used to work for Art said the following

dave@blackline wrote:
Yes the weber jet dr. Works just fine, it still retains the factory air jet. You can jet out of some of the problems with the dell jet dr. But I still think idle quality suffers.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
Is Art coming back to explain his dislike for them?
I am really interested in what he has to say and anyone else that has experienced problems with them.
One thing someone once told me that they experienced a lean condition in the idle circuit. There was not information backing up their claim, so I have no idea if it was true or they had another problem and blamed it on the jet doctors.


I agree with Art. He didn't say if which carb nor what part of CB's mods he was talking about but it doesn't really matter. The carb doctor is correct Very Happy

If we are just talking about webers and the idle air bleeds then they should work OK and don't do much harm, but IMO the tubes are in the wrong place.
I guess extending the idle air bleeds prevents plugging transfer ports.

If you prevent dirt/water from falling into the middle then that solves all problems.

Make tubes that prevent dirt from falling in the middle!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:
jsturtlebuggy wrote:
Is Art coming back to explain his dislike for them?
I am really interested in what he has to say and anyone else that has experienced problems with them.
One thing someone once told me that they experienced a lean condition in the idle circuit. There was not information backing up their claim, so I have no idea if it was true or they had another problem and blamed it on the jet doctors.


I agree with Art. He didn't say if which carb nor what part of CB's mods he was talking about but it doesn't really matter. The carb doctor is correct Very Happy

If we are just talking about webers and the idle air bleeds then they should work OK and don't do much harm, but IMO the tubes are in the wrong place.
I guess extending the idle air bleeds prevents plugging transfer ports.

If you prevent dirt/water from falling into the middle then that solves all problems.

Make tubes that prevent dirt from falling in the middle!


I'm not really impressed with them and kinda wish they stayed In Place when the top of the carb is pulled off. But it seems like they should do the job of keeping crud out. It reduces the size of the intake hole and I would think that's restrictive but I don't know anything about the physics of that and it seems like a lot of people use them so that is why I am trying them. I never heard of what Art is talking about but that isn't saying much.

I didnt think the jet doctors where my problem ...but maybe I should pull them and see.? I checked the gasket and it wasn't blocking any holes. The floats looked pretty close to specs but I didn't have a real accurate measuring device. I'm gonna throw in some new points and clean my jets again, check timing etch...again and see if something clears up.

I wanted to make some tubes to keep crap out of the middle but I don't know how to weld aluminum. That seems like the best solution. I also was wondering where to get jets like these . Seems these ones would be important to raise up too.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Jet Dr on my 36 dual Dells. They work, but I don't like the little lead balls you have to press into the micro small ports, if they fall out you can have some issues. I epoxied mine in. Also beware the quality of the Jet Doctors is very poor you have to be careful not to install them too tight or the jet stays behind in the body and are a hassle to get out. Also the screw driver slots on the top crack off with too much torque.

I still get blocked jets once in a while and once you have it you will remember you got it. The car backfires like you have a really bad problem. Just pull the jets blow them out and it will run like new.

I would say with the J.Dr. they are 90% better.

Just be care of the quality.
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esde
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
Also beware the quality of the Jet Doctors is very poor you have to be careful not to install them too tight or the jet stays behind in the body and are a hassle to get out. Also the screw driver slots on the top crack off with too much torque.


This was my first experience with jet doctors ever, removing the broken pieces that were left when the tops snapped off. Needless to say I got the carbs for cheap! I do like the idea of raising the idle air inlets, but the quality of the jet doctors is lacking, especially for a componant that is expected to be removed and installed many times while tuning.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It the jet does get dislodged from the tube. Do what I did, lightly squeeze the bottom end of the tube to make a snugger fit on the jet and if done correctly it will grab the jet and pull it out.

Giving the fact as discussed the tubes are really thin stiff metal you have to do the squeeze a little at time to prevent breaking the jet end. Also never make them really tight which is not a big deal.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one starts with clean carbs plugged idle jets occur very seldom. It also helps to make sure the filter mating surfaces are oiled as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

esde wrote:
nextgen wrote:
Also beware the quality of the Jet Doctors is very poor you have to be careful not to install them too tight or the jet stays behind in the body and are a hassle to get out. Also the screw driver slots on the top crack off with too much torque.


This was my first experience with jet doctors ever, removing the broken pieces that were left when the tops snapped off. Needless to say I got the carbs for cheap! I do like the idea of raising the idle air inlets, but the quality of the jet doctors is lacking, especially for a componant that is expected to be removed and installed many times while tuning.


There must be different kinds for other carbs . Mine is for idfs it's just a small tube that goes in the back side of the idle air inlet on the top of the carburetor. It doesn't screw In or connect directly to any jets. And I don't have to remove them to tune.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 3 types of "jet doctors"

- Taller air correction jet holders for main stack

- Idle air bleed extensions (IDF)

- Idle air bleed extensions (DRLA lead ball/tube kit not recommended by ACE or Blackline)


There is also the "update kit" for DRLAs which replace the stock booster with a spray bar and increase the venturi size. Not sure if it is recommended by ACE or Blackline.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jet doctors for Webers are different then the ones for Dellortos.
Webers ones are like what Dirtkeeper has and are separate part and just a tube for air.
The one for Dellortos replace the stock idle jet holder and you have to plug the stock air holes in the carb body with the lead sinkers as now the air flow for the idle jet is in the holder.
Using aluminum air cleaner plates and tops help keep more dust out then having stamped steel ones.
Greasing the lips of the filters help too.
The problem is K&N filter (and copies) don't work as good as they should and allow crap to flow through.
R2C filters are the best I found so far as for stopping silt. Problem is, that so far they are not making the small common 4x7x3 1/2in oval ones. Only the larger oval ones used in off road racing, the 5x9x6in ones. They are available at KarTek, they are the dealer for the R2C filters.
The do have one that work for remote setups and inside of UMP (Donaldson) cannisters.
I using one on my Subaru setup and no longer have to deal with a coating of silt inside the air intake system as I was getting using a K&N with outerwear and foam filter.
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