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Potsie
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 288
Location: Illinois
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 Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:04 pm Post subject: New Guy Alert... Should I Buy This Beetle? |
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This is my first post here, please excuse my ignorance. I'm looking for my first Beetle and found a '71 Super Beetle that I'm interested in. I have limited knowledge of the mechanics of these (or any) cars, but I know enough to see that there are some issues with this car. I was hoping some members could give their opinion on whether these issues are serious enough that I should not buy this car.
The good: the car runs well, shifts well, drives straight, doesn't shake, has very little rust, etc...
The bad: the hoses from the fan shroud to cool the exhaust system are completely missing. The holes for them are not even plugged, and the seal between the engine and exhaust compartments is not correctly in place. So, the engine and exhaust have not been getting properly cooled, and there's no heat in the car. There is a slight exhaust smell inside the car. The heat levers that should be by the parking brake are also missing.
The other bad: the air box is sitting in the back seat, and the carb is just open with no filter. The "dealer" is a crappy trailer in a parking lot and they have no idea how long these two things have been like this.
I was hoping that somebody might have an explanation for this. At first I thought it might be an aftermarket exhaust, and that the previous owner maybe had an aftermarket intake that they kept. But the exhaust looks stock to me. The real question is whether these things are likely to have damaged the motor enough that I should steer clear, or if these are relatively easy things to fix.
I did try to search for these answers, but couldn't find any other posts about random missing parts. Hopefully these pictures help. Thanks in advance!!!
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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pb_foots
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 1089
Location: Ben Lomond, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: New Guy Alert... Should I Buy This Beetle? |
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| Potsie wrote: |
| I have limited knowledge of the mechanics of these (or any) cars, |
This is a scary statement when you're looking at a car that needs to be put back together at best. if you can see those issues, what can't you see, or won't find until after you buy it? Could get expensive quick.
For sure you need new heat exchangers, and probably a muffler.
How's the body? |
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DadsOld74
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2013
Posts: 138
Location: Cody, Wyoming USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, what's missing is the heating system - completely. The exhaust system doesn't need to be heated at all. But, the heater captures the heat from the exhaust manifolds to heat the car. The hoses are supposed to come out of the doghouse down to the left and right side of the rear (rear of the car) of the engine. Then, the air blows through heat exchangers that are like jackets around the manifolds - which are finned on the inside. What you see are the fins that are supposed to help the air catch the heat efficiently. From there, the air blows into the car to keep you toasty warm.
For whatever reason, somebody really does not like the idea of heat. I can see not needing it in the south, but I'm not sure why somebody would completely strip it out like that when they still have so many stock parts.
Not having an air cleaner is also not good. It might have some extra wear in the engine due to the dust that entered the carb unfiltered.
On the other hand, it may still do fine for quite a while. Maybe a compression check would give you an idea if the engine has much internal wear or not. I don't think the heat issues would be too expensive to fix.
Find a good oil bath air cleaner on ebay for $40 or so if you get the car.
What are they asking for it? Sometimes it's not such a bad idea to get something that needs work and then bring it up to a higher standard according to your own preferences.
_________________
--Brian ('74 standard bug)
"If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." - Ferdinand Porsche |
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Joel
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| DadsOld74 wrote: |
| I'm not sure why somebody would completely strip it out like that when they still have so many stock parts. |
Heatboxes are usually stripped down like that because the outer shells have mostly rusted away.
Its a really bad thing to do as those fins without the shells and fan air blowing through them generate a lot of heat which just radiates up into the heads.
My big concern would be sitting like that in a car yard with no air filter how much rain and dust has gone down the carb....
_________________
Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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BUGGED11111
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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important info is missing
1. What's the price?
2. What do you know about bugs and are you going you do the work on it? If your not -get ready for some bills. The car has not been properly maintained that's obvious by looking at it
3. What are you going to use the car for? daily driver or fun? If you want a reliable car you will need to learn about these cars and spend time maintaining it.
The car might be right for some people and not right for others so you will not get an accurate answer from someone who doesn't know you or the car |
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Jessechop
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Caribou, Maine
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| No, you shouldnt buy the car. You have no mechanical ability and these cars (even when in proper working order) need a wrench here and there. Has to be the biggest mistake I see in old cars is people buying them thinking they will work out like a 99 Civic |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Potsie
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 288
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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The asking price is $4500, which is more than I would pay if I was going to make an offer at all. Seems more like a $3000 car (I'm in the Chicago suburbs, btw). The body is in very good condition as is the interior. Really everything looked good aside from the air filter and cooling system issues.
I do have some mehanical ability-- I've done small jobs on slightly more modern cars. I would hope to do most of the work myself if possible, just not looking for a car that's going need a ton of work/money before it's driveable. I would be using it for fun, not really a daily driver. I think I'll pass on this one. |
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DadsOld74
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2013
Posts: 138
Location: Cody, Wyoming USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Good choice to pass on it. I think that price is very high. Also, that carb looks pretty new to me. I'm guessing it's probably a very cheap Chinese carb put on there just to get the car running for sale. That could mean even more problems.
I hope you find a great little bug soon so you can stick with us!
_________________
--Brian ('74 standard bug)
"If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." - Ferdinand Porsche |
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Potsie
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 288
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| A big thank you to everybody for the advice! Hopefully I'll be posting about my new ride soon. |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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The former owner has been cooking the engine and not heating the cabin. And no air filter at all? Give me a break!
I would consider this engine to be toast. Would you buy a watercooled car that had no radiator?
The fool that allowed this car to run like this has, no doubt, hacked up a great many other items. The engine is only one part.
When I see cars in The Samba Classifieds that have fan hoses, cooling tins, etc., missing, I consider them to be abused by ignorant owners. It's like checking out the attractive blonde at a bar and when she turns around and smiles, you notice her teeth are yellow.
Time to keep looking for one of these: 
Tim |
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Dwayne1m
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 3538
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| $4500??? Wow is he a dreamer. I would run far away from that car at that price. |
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Potsie
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 288
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| $4500??? Wow is he a dreamer. I would run far away from that car at that price. |
Come on, the guy at the dealer says it only has 44k miles! I didn't have the heart to tell him. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Jessechop wrote: |
| Has to be the biggest mistake I see in old cars is people buying them thinking they will work out like a 99 Civic |
A 99 civic? as opposed to any other year model Civic? Are the 99s supposed to be the most reliable car ever made? 
| Tim Donahoe wrote: |
It's like checking out the attractive blonde at a bar and when she turns around and smiles, you notice her teeth are yellow.
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Please. I'd take that in a heartbeat.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Do this - go out and buy John Muir's How to Keep your VW alive. My Barnes and Noble stocks it. About $20. Gives a good overview on the cars as well as common repairs in plain English. There is also a "how to buy and old VW" somewhere on this site. You don't even really know what to look for as far as rust yet, so learn.
http://www.vw-resource.com/index.html
Big question to ask yourself is WHY? If you have an affinity for old VWs, have the time and money to play around and learn and are not counting on this to get you to and from work, then go for it (not this particular car at that price). Try to hook up with your local VW community - theres gotta be one in Chicago.
If on the other hand, you are looking for cheap transportation - look at an old Honda or Toyota.
Good luck.
Oh - one last thing - unless mileage is documented, never believe it. I can swap a speedo in about 15 minutes. Or give me an hour and I can set the odomoeter to whatever setting you want........
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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zav3nd
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 48
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| $4500??? Wow is he a dreamer. I would run far away from that car at that price. |
I have two engines for mine, Surely I can get 9000 out of it then? 
And here I was thinking if I could get 3 grand for it I'd buy a CJ.
I'd leave it as well. I got mine for 1,500 and it was pretty much driveable at the time, just needed brakes bled, carb rebuilt and timing. Then picked up the second engine to have something to drop into it. |
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Potsie
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 288
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks andk5591, those look like good resources. I'll check them out. I'm fairly aware of wear to check for rust but I know there's more to learn about that and plenty more.
Yeah, I'm just buying one for fun and to learn on. I have a car to drive to work. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Potsie wrote: |
Thanks andk5591, those look like good resources. I'll check them out. I'm fairly aware of wear to check for rust but I know there's more to learn about that and plenty more.
Yeah, I'm just buying one for fun and to learn on. I have a car to drive to work. |
Well good for you - They are a lot of fun and this site is a great resource. Do your research - when we bought our first one, I knew nothing about them and made a lot of mistakes. And what really sucked was a shop that supposed to have had a couple techs that "knew" old VWs, made bigger screw ups than me. So I gradually learned to do almost everything on the cars. Hope you find one and have fun.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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DadsOld74
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2013
Posts: 138
Location: Cody, Wyoming USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If on the other hand, you are looking for cheap transportation - look at an old Honda or Toyota. |
This is very true, but I'll build on it a little. We have a '95 Toyota Tercel we bought almost new. We've put a quarter of a million miles on the original engine and automatic transmission. It's amazing! Very inexpensive miles.
We brought our first daughter home from the hospital in it and recently drove it from Wyoming to Chicago to check out her choice in a college. No problems at all.
But, since my mechanical skills are limited, I can do some basic things on that car, but there are still a lot of things I have to pay the big bucks for a mechanic to do when problems arise. Thankfully, that doesn't happen often. But, it does happen.
We run a non-profit and our income level is often quite low. We need to be very mindful of our budget.
My bug costs very little to register and insure. It also gets good gas mileage. Needed parts are available and really don't cost much compared to many other vehicles. And, I can do nearly everything it needs mechanically myself. I haven't rebuilt an engine yet, but I'm confident I can do it and will learn what I need to know when the time comes - with help, I'm sure, from my friends here at The Samba.
I wouldn't want it to be my only car, but putting miles on one of these cars can still save you money over most other vehicles if you don't spend too much on flashy accessories and are willing to learn how to work on it yourself.
The rule I try to stick to is - "Money for parts, but not for labor." I'm not claiming I'll always be able to stick to that, but so-far-so-good.
Hope you find a fun hobby car soon!
_________________
--Brian ('74 standard bug)
"If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." - Ferdinand Porsche |
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