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karmann1st
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: Heating Alteration BRAINSTORM opinions for my1971 Ghia Coupe |
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Hi Everyone,
I was thinking to so some alteration to the engine heating on the engine bay but not sure what can happens, that is the question here, a brainstorm for VW guys experiences and expertize to help me decide if it is OK or not to do it, or the best way to do it.
Below is a picture of my engine (red car), you can see is temporary setup.
I also attached some schematic pictures of my plan (if it is good to do so) those parts are from the internet not mines and are used just a representation) below.
Since I am in Florida and is hot even in Winter...GRRR.. I decided to give the car a clean look and eliminate:
- Hoses from Fan shroud to heater boxes(already done)
- Heater boxes (that I already not have)
- Cut and weld the muffler (see diagram)
- Cut and weld the intake lower tubes going to muffler (A & B tubes)
Is ANY problem doing that for the engine normal performance??
I was seeing cars with this modification when I go to vw shows but I never asked (fan shroud without front pipes, intake without the lower tubes to muffler, no heater boxes, etc).
All Opinions will be appreciated.!!! That will help me to do it or Not.
Thank you all. !!!
AG
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c21darrel
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Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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VW made doghouse shrouds w/o the heat outlets...they're on 74 things (and on my ghia  ). Much cleaner than the block offs.
Your carb needs heat to run right, you will suffer there. Most use dual carbs as they pull heat right from the heads.
Ditch the clear blue dist cap, its a 3 dollar part and known to fail.
Im sure your fuel line and filter there are temp, right?
Looks like you are missing cooling tin, you need it all. If you eliminate the heater boxes get some industrial tins to keep j-tube heat from the heads and keep the air flo out the back. If your goal is to "clean up" engine...they make the rear tin(breastplate?) w/o the holes so no welds there.
Clean up your wiring.
Paint your cooling tin and pulleys.
Stay away frome chrome 
How are you eliminating heater boxes and using the stock muffler and a header/j-tubes? something not right.
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karmann1st
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
VW made doghouse shrouds w/o the heat outlets...they're on 74 things (and on my ghia :D ). Much cleaner than the block offs.
==== Yes much nicer and clean look... but I love to weld and that is a scuse to cove the holes of the fan shroud.. no?
Your carb needs heat to run right, you will suffer there. Most use dual carbs as they pull heat right from the heads.
=== any advice to keep the heat for the carb?? I will lose the heat on the gas that the carb send to the cylinders? because I cut the manifold??
Ditch the clear blue dist cap, its a 3 dollar part and known to fail.
=== I did like you did with the car (home restoration)..great I saw the pictures.. no problems with your neighbors??? I had and I have and I stopped the clear coat because of that.
---- THe engine setup now is just for test engine and transmission before to dismantle it, degrease, clean, paint tins etc... the blue cap is one that I have but I have all new original to go with.
Im sure your fuel line and filter there are temp, right?
== Yes I bought German braided lines and the fuel filter will be out of the engine bay... close where the Clutch NUT regulator is...
Looks like you are missing cooling tin, you need it all. If you eliminate the heater boxes get some industrial tins to keep j-tube heat from the heads and keep the air flo out the back.
===== I have the tin around the pulley and others... the only one missing is the one that goes between the Fan Shroud and the car chassis for my 1600 and I need to find which one it is... to buy it or see if I have it
If your goal is to "clean up" engine...they make the rear tin(breastplate?) w/o the holes so no welds there.
=== Love to weld... I did already the pulley tin closing the holes for the hoses
Clean up your wiring.
== Yes
Paint your cooling tin and pulleys.
== Needs to be high temp or not?? the ones over the cylinders can be hot...no?
Stay away frome chrome :)
== don't like chrome on there
How are you eliminating heater boxes and using the stock muffler and a header/j-tubes? something not right. |
--- When I bought the car has NO heating boxes... protuberances on fan shroud closed..
I have the Stock mufler and I eliminated the 2 ROUND bubbles(?) that were on the muffler... see my picture..easy..
I can talke anotehr picture for you...
Is your car ready??? send a pic of the engine..!!!
Thank for the helps.
!!! I appreciate it. |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| any advice to keep the heat for the carb?? |
it will run better with heat, center mount carb, stock or not needs heat to work right. Run dual carbs, problem fixed.
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| === I did like you did with the car (home restoration)..great I saw the pictures.. no problems with your neighbors??? I had and I have and I stopped the clear coat because of that. |
sorry, i just dont understand.
| Quote: |
| == Needs to be high temp or not?? |
Hi temp is a good idea, not super high temp, normal high temp, even BBQ paint.
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| I have the Stock mufler and I eliminated the 2 ROUND bubbles(?) that were on the muffler... see my picture..easy.. |
I see how you could weld and get the rear (rear=rear of car) exhaust port, but what about the front for cyl 1 and 3? Normally heater boxes connect the two for stock exhaust or J-tubes do for a header.
This is my engine set up.
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GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
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karmann1st
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| any advice to keep the heat for the carb?? |
it will run better with heat, center mount carb, stock or not needs heat to work right. Run dual carbs, problem fixed.
| Quote: |
| === I did like you did with the car (home restoration)..great I saw the pictures.. no problems with your neighbors??? I had and I have and I stopped the clear coat because of that. |
sorry, i just dont understand.
| Quote: |
| == Needs to be high temp or not?? |
Hi temp is a good idea, not super high temp, normal high temp, even BBQ paint.
| Quote: |
| I have the Stock mufler and I eliminated the 2 ROUND bubbles(?) that were on the muffler... see my picture..easy.. |
I see how you could weld and get the rear (rear=rear of car) exhaust port, but what about the front for cyl 1 and 3? Normally heater boxes connect the two for stock exhaust or J-tubes do for a header.
This is my engine set up.
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-- THe part that you didn't understand .. I was trying to explain that I had problems at home working in my garage since neighbors complained for the paint smell and called the police.!! I was painting with all close garage doors and 2 fans under the door with filters... I was asking how was in your case..
I just read all your 5 pages project... WOW.. car look nice...!!! |
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Altema
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Joined: June 20, 2010
Posts: 2904
Location: Lower Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Concerning the heat risers: C21darrel is absolutely correct, and if you have a center mounted carb then you must have the heat risers intact. Not only will you have carburetor icing problems even in warm weather, but running a cold intake on these engines will also cause you to lose 3 to 5 horsepower. I'm an engineer and did experiments with the risers in place, restricted, blocked, and cut completely off. I ended up replacing the intake manifold and now run headers with the heat risers installed.
If you want to get rid of the risers, then you should use dual carbs.
Paul |
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swavananda
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Joined: February 14, 2009
Posts: 889
Location: Can o' Scruz
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Heating Alteration BRAINSTORM opinions for my1971 Ghia C |
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| karmann1st wrote: |
I was seeing cars with this modification when I go to vw shows but I never asked (fan shroud without front pipes, intake without the lower tubes to muffler, no heater boxes, etc).
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Cheap common weber/empi progressive carb kits come with intake runners with no heat risers and generally they will always run like crap.
There is a therory, you might want to search some more on this, that if you block the heater outlets you should actually leave a coin sized hole for some air to run through. Complete closure can cause back pressure in the shroud and mess with air velocity. I believe this was part of Rabys test on different shrouds.
The Thing/puma shrouds are different design inside |
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lemke
Samba Troll
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 1249
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I used to live in Orlando - it gets at least down to 30 degrees every winter - many times in the 20's. It has gotten in the teens at least once that I could recall. Unless you live further south in Florida - that stock heater is a blessing in the winter. I used to just turn off the heater when it was hot, rolled down the window and it was tolerable. |
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karmann1st
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Altema wrote: |
Concerning the heat risers: C21darrel is absolutely correct, and if you have a center mounted carb then you must have the heat risers intact. Not only will you have carburetor icing problems even in warm weather, but running a cold intake on these engines will also cause you to lose 3 to 5 horsepower. I'm an engineer and did experiments with the risers in place, restricted, blocked, and cut completely off. I ended up replacing the intake manifold and now run headers with the heat risers installed.
If you want to get rid of the risers, then you should use dual carbs.
Paul |
WOW, thank you!
Yes, I will keep the risers and the central carb for now..thank you for the info.
Do you know if the Engine TINS and the intake and risers needs to be paint with just can paint? or needs to be BBQ or high temp paint?
Thanks!!! |
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OLD VW NUT
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2011
Posts: 2776
Location: High Desert of Washington 98823
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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The engine tin can be painted with a rattle can if you want. Most any primer and paint made for metal will work fine. For the cylinders and heads no paint is needed but if you want to paint them use a flat black paint made for barbecues. Shiny paint tends to insulate and you don't want that.
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71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore
Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
| VW made doghouse shrouds w/o the heat outlets...they're on 74 things (and on my ghia ). Much cleaner than the block offs.... |
Wouldn't those have been from the 1973 model year Things, when the gas heater came standard?
VW dropped the gas heater as standard equipment in the 1974 model year Things, so I believe those fan shrouds are "normal" (or at least the one in my former '74 Thing was, anyway). |
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c21darrel
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Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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its a 73 shroud.