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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:20 am    Post subject: Car Insurance Frustration Reply with quote

I have spent all morning calling insurance companies trying to get insurance for a 91 camper and a 67 beetle. Here is the conclusion I have come to:

1. If you want to insure your classic VW for anything greater than book value
- be prepared to have it locked in a private garage every night
- don't drive it to the gas station, to get lunch, to work, to drop off the kids, or for a full Sunday drive unless you are going to a club meet, event or show
- don't drive over the specified mileage
- don't enjoy the car more than looking at it or to show to friends (in your locked garage)

2. If you want to insure your classic VW and actually drive it
- be prepared to be told your car is worth about $4K (even after a $25K restoration)
- keep all receipts for upgrades maintenance additions repairs ect...
- keep a log of similar cars being sold even if you have not been in a wreck (be prepared)
- be prepared to be very disappointed with the outcome if you ever have to use your insurance company

3. If you want to insure your classic VW for what it is worth and drive it
- DON'T buy a classic VW, it's impossible

State Farm: will not offer stated value
Geico: will not offer stated value
Hagerty: must have personal locking garage and not drive it except to show, meeting/event
Grundy: must have personal locking garage and not drive it except to show, meeting/event
Progressive: will not offer stated value


Evil or Very Mad very frustrated

edit: changed topic title


Last edited by physast on Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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60ragtop
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/search.php?cx=partner-p...4354594j20
yep another topic that has been beaten to death and then some Wink
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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/search.php?cx=partner-p...4354594j20
yep another topic that has been beaten to death and then some Wink


I know... I have had the pleasure of reading most of them this morning. Maybe I should change my 'topic' to 'Insurance Rant' Smile

It just baffles me that if I want to pay someone extra money to insure my car and let me use it, can't. The only option is to insure the car for fair less than what it is worth and be able to use it. Newer cars, RV's are insured all the time at higher values.
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joe56vw
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other the the locked garage thing how would they prove anything else?

Your club could be meeting for lunch, or you stopped by the store/gas station on your way to a event, if you getting close to your close to your yearly milage limit just unhook the speedo Shocked Wink

You can either follow their rules to the tee and not enjoy your car or you can bend them alittle and enjoy it Wink
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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe56vw wrote:
Other the the locked garage thing how would they prove anything else?

Your club could be meeting for lunch, or you stopped by the store/gas station on your way to a event, if you getting close to your close to your yearly milage limit just unhook the speedo Shocked Wink

You can either follow their rules to the tee and not enjoy your car or you can bend them alittle and enjoy it Wink


I did ask two of the companies how they know if I am going to an event or not. They told me in the case that I do get in an accident on the way to an event they would need the following information to pay a claim:

(paraphrase)
- website link stating the event is actually taking place within 2 days of the accident (event can not be farther than the mileage limit)
- if no weblink is available email proof of an 'official' club meet/event would also work

For instance Hagerty (and I paraphrase) mentioned that if the car was stolen while eating lunch on the way to an advertised event they would pay, however if I could not prove that an event was taking place then I am out of luck.

I don't know if they enforce these rules or just use them to scare you, but I don't want to be the first to find out.

It sounds like regular insurance might be the way to go if I want to enjoy my cars... In the end I may loose money, but not the enjoyment/adventure of driving them. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried with USAA but they do not offer it themselves in California; they refer you to as associated bu independent company, American Collectors Insurance.

On the USAA site they state that you can drive more than just to shows:
Quote:
"Vehicles insured by a collector car policy may be used for occasional pleasure driving and hobby activities (such as club functions and exhibitions) up to a specified annual mileage limit. You can pick from a variety of annual mileage tiers (up to a max of 7,500 miles per year in most states) to fit your driving needs."


Read more at:
https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/faq_Collector_Cars_index?loadExpanded=whatIsConsidered

and

http://www.americancollectors.com
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*Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since somebody else stated that the topic has been beaten to death, I'll state - when dealing with insurance companies (of any kind), this shouldn't come as a shock. Insurance companies are in business to make money. The stipulations on collector car insurance are there not for your benefit, but for the company to keep premiums low, while limiting claims payouts. Simple as that. How much would you be willing pay for agreed value, no garage, unlimited mileage & unlimited usage? Living in the DC region, would you be willing to shell out $3K+ a year? The problem with regular auto insurers is that they deal with modern cars, some 40+ year old car - that falls out of their realm and they really don't know what to do, or even want to deal with it. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
I tried with USAA but they do not offer it themselves in California; they refer you to as associated bu independent company, American Collectors Insurance.

On the USAA site they state that you can drive more than just to shows:
Quote:
"Vehicles insured by a collector car policy may be used for occasional pleasure driving and hobby activities (such as club functions and exhibitions) up to a specified annual mileage limit. You can pick from a variety of annual mileage tiers (up to a max of 7,500 miles per year in most states) to fit your driving needs."


Read more at:
https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/faq_Collector_Cars_index?loadExpanded=whatIsConsidered


and

http://www.americancollectors.com


I just called American Collectors Insurance. This was going well and I thought 'finally found a company to insure me and allow me to drive my car', then they asked what car I currently have as a daily driver.

Well I don't have a car currently as I live in the city and donated my 'daily driver' a few years ago because I don't need one.

Then they said it: 'Well we can't insure the VW's unless you currently own a daily driver' Shocked Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the way I see it...........
Collector car insurance is exactly as described. Reasonably priced Replacement Value insurance for those who collect and occasionally drive a classic. The price is kept in check since the risk to the insurer is minimized by requiring the insured to keep the car secured when not in use and prove that you have another car as a daily.
Why should I pay more for agreed value insurance just because a few want cheap insurance but drive a classic everyday? It doesn't work that way.
The decision on how you want to enjoy your old cars is really up to you. I wouldn't blame the insures. They provide a product for just about everyone. I also bristle at those who try to use classic/collector plates on their daily's to avoid paying for regular plates Rolling Eyes
I don't work or represent the insurance industry. I am just interested in keeping this hobby affordable
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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Darren wrote:
Since somebody else stated that the topic has been beaten to death, I'll state - when dealing with insurance companies (of any kind), this shouldn't come as a shock. Insurance companies are in business to make money. The stipulations on collector car insurance are there not for your benefit, but for the company to keep premiums low, while limiting claims payouts. Simple as that. How much would you be willing pay for agreed value, no garage, unlimited mileage & unlimited usage? Living in the DC region, would you be willing to shell out $3K+ a year? The problem with regular auto insurers is that they deal with modern cars, some 40+ year old car - that falls out of their realm and they really don't know what to do, or even want to deal with it. Good luck with whatever you decide.


I am not looking for unlimited mileage, unlimited usage or street parking..

I want:
- up to 5000 miles a year
- occasional driving and vacations; 4 maybe 5 times a month (basically some weekends)
- key locked apartment underground parking garage
- fair current market value for replacement

And yes, to know my cars are protected, for the above I would pay $2400/year for both cars. I pay more than that just to have the liberty to park the cars in the garage (at my own risk).

I don't think I am asking for too much.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Car Insurance Frustration Reply with quote

physast wrote:


2. If you want to insure your classic VW and actually drive it
- be prepared to be told your car is worth about $4K (even after a $25K restoration)



Why would you spend $25K on a restoration of your classic vehicle and then park it outside? A locked garage would seem more than reasonable to most.

My $.02....
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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Car Insurance Frustration Reply with quote

german_metal wrote:
physast wrote:


2. If you want to insure your classic VW and actually drive it
- be prepared to be told your car is worth about $4K (even after a $25K restoration)



Why would you spend $25K on a restoration of your classic vehicle and then park it outside? A locked garage would seem more than reasonable to most.

My $.02....


As stated above, I am not parking my car outside, instead in a locked/secured underground apartment community parking garage.

The insurance company told me that it must be my personal locked garage, not one that is owned by an apartment management company.

I totally agree, I would not park my restored VW car outside Shocked (I would also not spend $25K on a restoration).
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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might have just found the solution! Very Happy

Believe it or not out of all my reading today the 'independent appraisal clause' just sunk in. Embarassed

If I interpret this correctly....

If my car is totaled and I don't agree with the amount the insurance company tells me my car is worth I can get an independent appraisal, which the insurance company will then use as the value of the car.

Now to find out if Washington DC has an independent appraisal clause?!?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kingkarmann wrote:
Here's the way I see it...........
Collector car insurance is exactly as described. Reasonably priced Replacement Value insurance for those who collect and occasionally drive a classic. The price is kept in check since the risk to the insurer is minimized by requiring the insured to keep the car secured when not in use and prove that you have another car as a daily.
Why should I pay more for agreed value insurance just because a few want cheap insurance but drive a classic everyday? It doesn't work that way.
The decision on how you want to enjoy your old cars is really up to you. I wouldn't blame the insures. They provide a product for just about everyone. I also bristle at those who try to use classic/collector plates on their daily's to avoid paying for regular plates Rolling Eyes
I don't work or represent the insurance industry. I am just interested in keeping this hobby affordable


^^^^^^^
This
(and, by the way, Hagerty does not have mileage limits nor do they require that you are on your way to a show or meeting. They expect you to enjoy your collector car ---just not as your sole means of transportation. At least that's the way it is here, but a D.C. resident might have restrictions that I am not aware of.)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^same with Leland West classic ins. I can drive it anywhere, anytime, and i choose the agreed value number. The words..."classic car insurance" practically implies its not your daily driver. The 2 issues that the og poster has is the need for a daily driver and the garage issue. His garage is a tweener, they would need a pic of the set up.
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physast
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
^^^same with Leland West classic ins. I can drive it anywhere, anytime, and i choose the agreed value number. The words..."classic car insurance" practically implies its not your daily driver. The 2 issues that the og poster has is the need for a daily driver and the garage issue. His garage is a tweener, they would need a pic of the set up.


Correct, my biggest hurdle for classic car insurance is:
1) I don't currently own a daily driver and
2) my garage is secured shared underground parking (not private secured)

However, it sounds like for me at least, classic car insurance is not needed if the insurance companies have this independent appraisal clause.

The biggest advantage to classic car insurance would be:
1) no need for an independent appraisal (value already agreed on)
2) lower premiums because I will not be driving often
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I have "current market value" with AAA, for all my 3 vehicles AND the trailer even! Pay less than $900 a year. Cool
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, what arrives in the mail today? My renewal materials from Grundy. Because of this thread I looked it over and came across this section of exclusions under the bodily injury section.
#9. Due to: a) War, whether or not declared; b) civil war; c) insurrection, d) rebellion or revolution;
#10. Resulting from: a) radioactive; b) toxic, c) explosive; d) other hazardous properties; of nuclear material


I decided to pull out last year's contract & look up the section that is typically the cause for trouble under the auto usage endorsement section 1. Maintained solely for use in exhibitions, parades, club activities, or other functions of public interest 2) is NOT used for regular driving to work, school, errands, shopping, general transportation, secondary or back up transportation, business or commercial purposes, except for limited pleasure use.

It's #2 that really catches most people, however the "limited pleasure use" widens usage a bit. It should be noted that Grundy, like the other classic insurer's mentioned does NOT have an annual mileage limit.

I also should note that the contract has a fairly extensive note on independent appraisal section.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hagerty responded in writing to me TODAY that I could take my '71 VW to dinner, to my high school reunion, out for ice cream, even could drive it to work occasionally.

Condon & Skelly -who I'm currently with - says "Einfach Verboten" !!! I spoke with their rep today, with the same queries posed to Hagerty.

So looks like I'll be switching, don't want to face a potential fight with Condon & Skelly. For example, in October, I drove the VW to a local VW show. But I didn't "show" my VW, so was that "an allowed usage" under Condon-Skelly? I'm not so sure.

And is taking the car to the gas station a "pleasure drive"? What about a test drive when you're not sure a repair has been done successfully - is that a "pleasure drive" ???
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:

And is taking the car to the gas station a "pleasure drive"? What about a test drive when you're not sure a repair has been done successfully - is that a "pleasure drive" ???


Every drive is a pleasure drive because I am left smiling at the end.
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