ignition timing on 1.9 question

climber2377 · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: ignition timing on 1.9 question

at the risk of sounding retarded, (puns are fun) i have a question that doesnt seem to be clearly answered in the bentley for me... maybe i am not so smart. i am looking for the idle stabilizer control unit so i can disconnect the wires and plug them together to bypass it, while checking the timing with timing light...so question one is where it? then since this all sounds fun, i am also wondering how to find 5 degrees ATDC? i searched ignition timing, but found little that helped me. i dont work well when i have little patience... my brain is hurting and i m hungry so i m not thinking well. anyway, your help is appreciated. thanks.
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

Ahwahnee · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject:

This is the stabilizer (may be green or white):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The crank pulley has two notches on the rim... one is U shaped and the other V shaped. One is TDC, the other is 5° ATDC.

Sorry, do not recall off hand which is which, but it is in the manual.

Aaah, here they are. Looks like U is TDC and V is 5° ATDC:

Your timing 'pointer' is the edge of the engine case you see sticking out.

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353

If you time your engine at 5* ATDC and the retard can on the distributor is bad as it likely is, you will be ~12* out of time. Time your engine at ~28* BTDC @ 3500+ rpms, hoses off.

28* will be 1.71" (~1 3/4") to the right of the TDC dimple IIRC.

climber2377 · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject:

How do I test retard can?
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

climber2377 · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject:

I used a vacuum line and tried sucking on it like a straw and the retard side just sucks air. The advance side holds vacuum. The rotor doesn't move either time. I do not have a vacuum pump. Does this tell me anything?
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

climber2377 · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject:

Also by hoses off do you mean plug the vacuum advance and vacuum retard lines? Or leave them sucking air? Do you still bypass the idle control box?
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353

Your retard can is bad so the stock specs will not work. You need to permanently block off the hose to the retard can as it is creating a vacuum leak which will affect your mixture. The hose to the advance can can just be blocked with a screw while you set the timing and then reinstalled onto the can when done.

Yes you need to plug the two plugs running to the DIS together no matter how you set your timing.

You should be able to twist the rotor ~10* in a clockwise direction using your fingers and not have to apply too much force to do so. The rotor should spring back when you release the tension. You should also be able to see the timing advance when you rev the engine with the timing light installed. The movement should be smooth and not jumpy.

devesvws · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject:

i tried the tencentlife method but my marks came up way off, but here is one of the links that everyone suggests http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6882619&highlight=
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THE FEW THE PROUD THE ORIGINAL VW WATERBOXER -> looking for a original 91 vanagon owners manual with 1991 on the cover http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmuiG2tUsP4&feature=share https://picasaweb.google.com/101290228103300323836/BostonBobFlywheelVideo#5543000332201103922

climber2377 · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject:

I think I have more than one challenge here...
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

climber2377 · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject:

ok here goes... i think i messed up, but i ll try to explain the situation as best as i can here and i think i found some more challenges... 1) today i decided to look into the whole lopping idle- it was running good, but would idle weird, it would hang out at 1100 and then jump up to 1300 and go back to 1100 and back to 1300, so i decided maybe its time to touch the screws... oops. i turned the idle adjust screw and that do not touch me someone already took the wax out of it CO allen head screw. i ve got some eyeball burning exhaust on top of the idle that jumps up and down. i already checked for a variety of vacuum leaks and replaced a bunch of hoses and lines. there are 2 more and then maybe the big ones on each of the intake and the intake gaskets left, but i did tighten the clamps. anyway, after turning the screws and counting the turns and all that, i lost track. is there a way to set the base idle by screwing the screws all the way in and backing them out?
2) i did the auxillary air regulator test by squeezing the line that goes into the throttle body as in the photo. maybe it wasnt cold enough, but there was no change. so then i tested to see if there was a voltage supply to what i think they are talking about... in bens photo he calls it the powersteering high idle control, but i do not have powersteering so i m not sure. http://www.benplace.com/vanagon_digijet_engine_component.htm
anyway it is number 11. no power to that and the weird part is it seems that the red wire is ground, unless the are twisted in behind the rubber... i checked the ohms to ground on both wires in the little connector and found one goes to ground and the other does not. seemed backwards. i decided to try to power the unit with a power and ground and i hear a little click but the click doesnt sound like it comes from the unit... another weird situation... 3) i decided to check the timing - i disconected the plugs at the idle stabilizer control unit and plugged them together, then i plugged both the advance and the retard vacuum lines with screws and with the engine barely holding an idle, i checked the timing... it seems to be at 5 * ATDC, however, we discovered that the retard side of the vacuum unit does not hold a vacuum. so now i am thinking i m going to adjust the timing as in the previous post 1" and 3/4 different or whatever it says... however i think i d like to get the idle set better before i do. any input on this catastrophe is appreciated. what did i get myself into this time?
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

climber2377 · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject:

also, being that the vacuum retard is leaking, do i plug it while leaving the advance side hooked up when i use the ten cent method of 2 inches? in the ten cent method do i also have to connect the idle stabilizer connectors together in bypass mode for this method? i m a little confused.
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353

climber2377 · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject:

ok, so i thank you for your help thus far... i have gotten this thing pretty well timed and i have the retard can vacuum line plugged. i also found that i had issues with the throttle plate. it was rubbing and becoming oblong and out of shape. i heard a squeak when i increased the throttle because it was rubbing inside. so i decided to take the throttle body off and clean it up and then i put some washers in between the linkage and the housing to keep it from dropping down again. now there is a gap below the throttle plate, but i turned the idle screw almost all the way in to help compensate. i might have the timing a little off, since i did it mostly by ear in the end, but here is what is going on. going down the road, this thing is running better than ever and even has a throatier sound to the exhaust, but when i pulled up my driveway at low rpm i barely made it and wanted to bog out and stall. is this because my retard can is bad and im still a few degrees off? if i advance the timing any further, it searches more and runs away from itself. so unless i do more to limit the air intake (something like the jb weld or invest in a new or rebuilt throttle body) i think i m stuck with this bogging situation for now. any other thoughts? is it silly to get a new retard can that works? will that even help my problem? your input is much appreciated.
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[email protected] 84 Westy 1.9 waterboxer > 2001 Legacy 2.5L sohc w/ subarugears 5MT Ty754

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353

Your throttle body situation can't be helping with the way it runs. With a single center mounted carb on a Type 1, it messes up the way the carb transitions when your run it without the retard can hooked up. Minor modifications to the carb are needed to make it transition well. I never have experienced this on a 1.9 liter FI engine though. I would set the timing at full mechanical advance with a light and then do whatever is needed to the FI to make it run well.

For what it is worth, the engine in my '87 syncro always pulled better at low rpms with the timing was set to the retarded end of the acceptable range. Never really figured out why this was so.

devesvws · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:48 am Post subject:


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