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irun5k
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: drain locations Reply with quote

Hello, I was wondering if someone has a list of drains that should be checked for blockage on a '69 Beetle?

I know there are supposed to be 2 in the bottoms of each door? I've only found one but I'm guessing one is supposed to be near the front and one near the back?

I've read about rocker drains but didn't find anything conclusive regarding whether the '69 has them or where to look?

The other I know about is the drain out of the fresh air box.

Anything else?
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something related: I drilled another (a second) hole in my door bottoms because I took off the interior door panel after a rain, and the car being parked on an incline, just let the water sit in there. So I have a hole at each end now. Also, you may have two triangular-shaped hole/depressions on your door sills. If so, you might unplug them.

I have a '74 Super, by the way. But you may have two rubber sort of check valves that are for draining. They are located in the back portion of the heater channels. They are about the size of a quarter, a soft rubber, and look like a sort of squashed half circle.

Since my heater channels are rust free, I figure that was a good idea.

Maybe you have them, too.

Tim
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well.......
Because of bad drains, I at one point had this discouraging pile of tin!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There is one in the rear of the pan. Below the shift coupler under the back seat. If you crawl under the car you will find a dimple pointing down with a hole, about 1/2" in the dimple. You SHOULD have a rubber valve there but it is probably long gone.
Rubber valve......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can see the Hole and Dimple at the end of the last X pattern just before the oval transaxle mounting bracket.......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The above photo also shows the two drains at the "napoleons hat" below the brake master cylinder. Dirt builds up on the plate and rusts this critical structure away! See them in the front at the mid point of the first X.


Open the door, either door, look below the lower hinge on the very bottom of the "A" pillar...... See the arrow?.....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You need to close the door and remove the running board but you will find this hole.......... It is often rusted away or completely clogged. It drains the "Black Hole" under each front lid Spring......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ok, open a door and look at the metal threshhold. Above the Running board but outside of the carpet. There should be two triangular shaped drain holes stamped in. You can see them in this photo near the ends left and right (this is a Convertible so you will see reinforcements that a Sedan doesn't have that get covered by carpet)......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A close up....... It's sideways, sorry, tilt head to left........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Inside the car looking out. The door threshhold, you can see the triangular drain dimples, but look to the front...... on the hinge pillar, see that round hole? This is access for the lower door hinge. It is normally covered by a plastic plug to keep out dirt, but..... Even with the plug As you drive, water and fine dirt get past the door hinges where they protrude from the body and settle in the bottom of the hinge pillar below this hole.
Clean this area or the lower "A" pillar will rot away!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is my door off the car, find you drain holes and clean them to prevent this kind of rot!....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is my heater channel, I never saw the heater channel Drain Tim describes for this is what my channel looked like!......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not of concern IF you have good rubber but at each lower windshield corner are these holes, designed to drain away excess primer after dipping at the factory. When the rubber seal dries, these hole let in water behind the dash!..... But........ Even with decent rubber, rust happens under the rubber! See the rusty bubble area? Not good!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sedans have drains for air behind each 1/4 window...... The crescent vent.
Sadly over time they let in moisture which the factory foam holds against the metal which in turn rusts out the entire area. A cut away view showing the air drain box and the death foam.......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm working from memory here but.........

I haven't photos but look at the bottom edges of your fenders where they are rolled under, there are often drain holes provided so water doesn't sit in there.

Also the front and the rear aprons where they are rolled creating a lip may have holes drilled.

If you pop you rear inner 1/4 panel interior trim panel off, you will find a drain into the rocker panel.
Additionally, If you have a Sun Roof the drain for it drains into this cavity!!! I rarely say this....... But ......... BAD DESIGN!!!!!!

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:51 am; edited 16 times in total
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vernonc
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My '69 has the rubber 'plugs', that Tim describes, at each end of the heater channels.

mort
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'69 sedan, low mileage, all original.....currently being 'freshened-up' for road trips and daily driving...just not every day

Freshening-up link http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617386
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vernonc wrote:
My '69 has the rubber 'plugs', that Tim describes, at each end of the heater channels.

mort


Can you or Tim photograph these drains and post them here so we know what they look like?

Also a photo of the drains on the bottom of a good factory door?

Dave
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh!
And let's not forget the fresh air box if you have one!

The super has a big metal cover you need to remove, about center towards the radio area, under the wiper motor, is a black rubber drain pipe, it actually enters the passenger compartment before exiting through the firewall.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



And the headlamp buckets!
They have a drain hole that should have a rubber valve on each one.
The hole you clearly see is for the wire tube, there is another in the shadows at the bottom for the drain valve tube.......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Dave
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to go through a five-point process to take a pic, upload it to my computer, put it in the Gallery, post it. So ...

... the drain plugs in the heater channels are at either end, just before the fenders, fore and aft. The plugs are about the size of a quarter and the exposed part of each plug is a kind of dome--but not too domey, so to speak. If you pull this plug out (it's very soft rubber), the end that sticks into the hole (which is much smaller than the exterior circumference of the plug) has a "T" from what I remember. This "T" holds the plug in.

The plugs are very soft rubber and fit kind of snug/loosy to the drain holes. This allows only water seepage to exit, while not letting a lot of your heated air to escape the heater channels.

I didn't realize I had the front plugs until vern mentioned it. Later today I'm going to check to see if they're all intact. I can't imagine where I'd buy one if it were missing.

Tim
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vernonc
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
I have to go through a five-point process to take a pic, upload it to my computer, put it in the Gallery, post it. So ...

... the drain plugs in the heater channels are at either end, just before the fenders, fore and aft. The plugs are about the size of a quarter and the exposed part of each plug is a kind of dome--but not too domey, so to speak. If you pull this plug out (it's very soft rubber), the end that sticks into the hole (which is much smaller than the exterior circumference of the plug) has a "T" from what I remember. This "T" holds the plug in.

The plugs are very soft rubber and fit kind of snug/loosy to the drain holes. This allows only water seepage to exit, while not letting a lot of your heated air to escape the heater channels.

I didn't realize I had the front plugs until vern mentioned it. Later today I'm going to check to see if they're all intact. I can't imagine where I'd buy one if it were missing.

Tim


Excellent description Tim........and less than a thousand words.....good work.

mort
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'69 sedan, low mileage, all original.....currently being 'freshened-up' for road trips and daily driving...just not every day

Freshening-up link http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617386
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irun5k
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you guys, this is a very valuable post. I can't think of any more important maintenance task, to be honest.

I do not think my '69 has the heater channel plugs. I am assuming it would be in the area exposed when the running boards are off?

I'm going to track the rest down this week.

This car is generally solid- body, pan, etc. but something clearly failed on the passenger side because the lower hinge pillar rotted out. I imagine water got in and rusted its way out. The small triangular area of body between the hinge pillar and front fender also rotted out. Weirdest thing, but from this hole I extracted a shotgun shell, metal ballpoint pen and #3 pencil. I don't know if that stuff could have dropped in from the trunk somehow...
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irun5k wrote:
Thank you guys, this is a very valuable post. I can't think of any more important maintenance task, to be honest.

I do not think my '69 has the heater channel plugs. I am assuming it would be in the area exposed when the running boards are off?

I'm going to track the rest down this week.

This car is generally solid- body, pan, etc. but something clearly failed on the passenger side because the lower hinge pillar rotted out. I imagine water got in and rusted its way out. The small triangular area of body between the hinge pillar and front fender also rotted out. Weirdest thing, but from this hole I extracted a shotgun shell, metal ballpoint pen and #3 pencil. I don't know if that stuff could have dropped in from the trunk somehow...


No, not where the running board fasteners, but front and rear of the heater channel assembly , inside the fenders, the road splash area.

The rotted hinge? Clogged triangle at the bottom in front of the hinge pillar and crud getting trapped in the lower door screw hole.

Crap in the black hole? Yes, it was in the trunk and fell into the blackness!

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Supers with the vertical Spare Tire storage have a drain hole at the Bottom of the Tire Well.

You can see it in this photo........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
I have to go through a five-point process to take a pic, upload it to my computer, put it in the Gallery, post it. So ...

... the drain plugs in the heater channels are at either end, just before the fenders, fore and aft. The plugs are about the size of a quarter and the exposed part of each plug is a kind of dome--but not too domey, so to speak. If you pull this plug out (it's very soft rubber), the end that sticks into the hole (which is much smaller than the exterior circumference of the plug) has a "T" from what I remember. This "T" holds the plug in.

The plugs are very soft rubber and fit kind of snug/loosy to the drain holes. This allows only water seepage to exit, while not letting a lot of your heated air to escape the heater channels.

I didn't realize I had the front plugs until vern mentioned it. Later today I'm going to check to see if they're all intact. I can't imagine where I'd buy one if it were missing.

Tim


Good explanation Tim! ......... but as they say, a picture is worth 1000 words!

Can anyone take a photo of these plugs and post them here?
The OP didn't follow the explanation.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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vernonc
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
irun5k wrote:
Thank you guys, this is a very valuable post. I can't think of any more important maintenance task, to be honest.

I do not think my '69 has the heater channel plugs. I am assuming it would be in the area exposed when the running boards are off?

I'm going to track the rest down this week.

This car is generally solid- body, pan, etc. but something clearly failed on the passenger side because the lower hinge pillar rotted out. I imagine water got in and rusted its way out. The small triangular area of body between the hinge pillar and front fender also rotted out. Weirdest thing, but from this hole I extracted a shotgun shell, metal ballpoint pen and #3 pencil. I don't know if that stuff could have dropped in from the trunk somehow...


No, not where the running board fasteners, but front and rear of the heater channel assembly , inside the fenders, the road splash area.

The rotted hinge? Clogged triangle at the bottom in front of the hinge pillar and crud getting trapped in the lower door screw hole.


Crap in the black hole? Yes, it was in the trunk and fell into the blackness!

Dave


Dave, on my '69, the plugs (drains) are on the bottom of the heater channels at both the front and the rear.

mort
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'69 sedan, low mileage, all original.....currently being 'freshened-up' for road trips and daily driving...just not every day

Freshening-up link http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617386
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Molly1973
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great information! Thank you!
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irun5k
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, found a couple of candidates underneath my heater channels. Not sure if this is them or not. The rear looks to be something I could pry out and the front might be missing whatever it once had. Thoughts? Fenders aren't off so if there is a drain lurking there I'll have to discover it another day.

fore:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


aft:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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bandi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this is going to keep me awake at night now... something else to worry about... my drains!

(Awesome post. Thank you.)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: drain locations Reply with quote

You guys have done a GREAT job of explaining the location and function of the original factory drain holes. So, after millions of bugs produced and perhaps hundreds of thousands rebuilt by fellow enthusiasts, can anyone recommend where there SHOULD have been additional drain holes? While I'm still in the pre-reassembly stage on my '66 project, it would be helpful to know where I might locate additional drain holes in order to perhaps prolong the life of my Beetle?
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Frank Bassman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: drain locations Reply with quote

I personally would drill a hole like the ones on the back on the plate to which the pans' outer perimeter is bolted to the heater channel, by the black hole pillar. I did a patch job on mine because they were rotted in that area alone. Clearly there was something up with water accumulating there and only there.

-Frank.
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Frodge
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: drain locations Reply with quote

Where and how many drains on the doors?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: drain locations Reply with quote

Love this post! Thank you! Very Happy
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