Yet another engine build question... 1776

[electronictofu]

Yo guys!

My my my.... so many threads on engine builds. Aluminum versus magnesium, stock versus brazilian.... new cases, stock cases...

I really dig Aircooled.net, there info is nicely laid out and super thorough. The one thing that keeps sticking out in my head is not to use original engine cases, "old and warn out" line boring ain't so hot... could lead to heating issues.... etc.

I am wanting to pull the trigger on a long block this month, or very soon. It's for a 65' Bus. Planning on going with a 1776, single carb. I have a rebuilt 4.12 already installed. This will be an every few day driver, with a few longer trips a year.

I am sure there are boat loads of stock rebuilds on the road and running well. When is building up a stock case acceptable? Certain limits to line bore? What to stay away from?

I have been following up with GregsVW (Sacramento). I was referred his way through Skinner (Vacaville) Seems to like a good local builder. The block is fresh from the machine shop, align bore, deck surface, fresh inserts. First rebuild on this case.

I've built several Chevy engines years back. I do plan on building my own bus engine. But right now I want something reliable that will run well in California heat with some nice road trips. My to do list on the Bus is growing thinner and Im excited to get something put in. Any tips or leads would be highly appreciated.

Thanks All!
-Phil

[jfats808]

Tip #1 : Dont believe everything you read.

[VWCOOL]

Not quite sure what you are asking... but there is nothing wrong with a second-hand, competently line-bored case. One of my engines is built on a case from a Kombi and carries 30-year-old other bits, too.

However, the machinist (and the engine builder) must know what he is doing... you can't line-bore with a die grinder or a broomstick wrapped in sandpaper.

I'm in Big Twubble elsewhere for saying this but a 1916cc engine will be the same effort and costs as a 1776 (the machining processes are just about identical, as are the component costs) but give you the extra capacity and, all things being equal, extra zing.

Hope this helps

[74 Thing]

Greg at Gregsvw knows what is going on and has built many engines for racing and buses (long trip engines) etc... Listen to his suggestions and you should be good!

[MURZI]

Single carb..... That is the limiter.

1776, stock heads...flycut to 53cc, CB2280 cam, svda dist.
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2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam

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[75smith]

the only case I warn people about is the H case-on anything more then a mild build the oil passages get restrictive and the alloy is really weak-the best cases in my opinion are the later 8mm dual relief cases

I also only recommend aluminum cases on large engines(2332+) or on large boosted engines

being a single carb I don't recommend anything much over the 1800cc range, single carbs seem to run at its limit there...this of course depends on the carb too, a single 44idf should support a mild 2110....
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

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Used cases line bored can work fine, but so much depends on who is doing the line boring. A good machinist will line bore, THEN bore check the bearings and bearing clearance from bearings/crank AFTER the bore. And do another .0005" cut if needed, etc. They don't just use the same boring bar for 500 cuts without re-checking, or checking at all. Believe it or not some shops do this, and don't check (don't care).

I know that Blackline and Painter's both do it right. I'm sure Sison does also, because he's anal like that.

I'm not saying other shops don't, but you better know before you have them cut your case, if you are going to line bore it. Most don't.

I would avoid all B and H cases entirely, IMO. It's a fact that most used cases out there are used and worn way beyond the point of trying to rebuild them. But some guys don't have that money either, so you have to compromise and do the best you can with what you have.
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[stan_tichomirov]

You are in Sacramento, pretty close. There should be a few shops around that can set up a used case properly with bearings you need. Ken Jansen in Belmont does good work and can do this for you.

Stan
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Aircooled.net
Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build

[boomer1389]

[modok]

AH is not H.
All case starting with A were pretty good.

Engine numbers don't really matter. Look for one with 8mm cylinder studs and two oil relief valves.

[74 Thing]

In Sac I would use Gregs VW or Vallero's Machine Shop.

You cannot go wrong with either.

Good luck.

[Danwvw]

If your going to go for a new case get an aluminum one! But they cost about 8 or 9 hundred! But with luck you can pick-up a good used VW AS-41 Magnesium Dual Relief case for around 1 or 2 hundred. Here is a fuel injected 1978 or so case in Sacramento CA for $50 but it has a broken lifter bore. Someone will need to be able to fix that! I think it would work! Then have it align-bored if needed for another hundred and have it opened up for another hundred and have it full flowed for some more money. But still you will save some money running a used case. The problem with used cases is that some machinist cut the thrust to 2nd cut which ends the life of the case. If a case is cut to second cut on the thrust that is it's last life. Always just clean up the thrust and cut a oversized thrust bearing to fit. That way a case can be re-built several times. The Aluminum cases don't need to be machined as much when rebuilt, Aluminum is much stronger than Magnesium and does not hammer out nearly as much as magnesium and the thrust will likely not need machining.
If you want to keep your engine looking stock you could fine an H Case for it. There pretty easy to find. Just run the Aluminum Porsche 356A/912 Oil cooler with it and it would be ok or do a Dog House fan Shroud and the much less expensive Stock VW Aluminum Oil Cooler.
Consider a stroker motor for a Bus! Makes a big difference in climbing the hills.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[electronictofu]

Well, it makes more sense now about original cases. Anything can be good or bad when done properly, or crummy. I've been emailing with GregsVW a little, he first recommended a 1776. Which was my first go to.

Going a little bit larger, 1835, or 1915 would be nice, especially is machining isn't that much different. As much as I love dual carbs, as I've had a dual setup on a 1915 in a bug years ago (And loved it) not sure how reliable the setup is for something I want to get a lot of road time out of. Plus parts add up fast... Stroker would be awesome for a Bus I agree. More gain at a lower RPM... Im obviously not looking for top speeds, it's a bus Good acceleration is probably the key thing for me.

[Danwvw]

I guess if I had a 65 bus I would be really tempted to build a engine that looked really stock but had a little more under the hood! Under the tins that is. I did a 74 mm stroke with 5.325" rods because it did not involve any modification from stock geometry. But I guess with B stroke pistons it possible to do 76mm or even 78 mm stroke. In a way stroke does not really need more carb like bore does! So a stroker could be built looking stock, running a stock carburetor and air cleaner and it would be a bit of a sleeper.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[electronictofu]

This is a 64' Rag I had a few years ago. I didn't build a thing on it, except the stereo and wiring and windows Which is why I sold it. Loved it... but had no real connection or satisfaction... plus I needed the dough. The car build that is, not necessarily the engine. I don't have any specs other than this was a 1915, with a FF. And it was a blast to drive.

[electronictofu]

[75smith]

[Danwvw]

The 2007cc engine would be a nice engine that way for a bus but if you do that with a stock carb your going to want to run a stock-ish cam or perhaps a w-100. A stock cam with 1.25 ratio rockers would probably be a good tractor engine in that size. The Web-Cam 218/219 might be a good choice and go with stock valve size heads and whatever carb or carbs you decide on. This 2007cc engine with the Dual carbs and the web-cam 163 and some L3 heads would probably make over a hundred horsepower and it would be all torque!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[electronictofu]