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72vert
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Location: Wylie, Texas
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 Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: 69 Fasty FI Auto with Hydraulic Lifters Starting Issues |
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Ok I got this car about a year and a half ago, had been grage kept and not driven much since 2005 but supposedly started weekly. Tune-up, new fuel and vacuum lines after I got it and ran great, prolly put approx 6000 miles on it including a drive from Dallas to The Texas Classic in Fredricksburg, no issues. Parked over the winter did not drive it much. I had issues getting the car to run this year and I took it to an old school VW mech here, he replaced the ignition switch and tuned it but it still not run like it did before, some power cutoffs when accelerating from a stop, punch it and it clears up, cut outs why cruising 35-40 mph, not like a miss fire. finally after two weeks it wont start at all, igntion switch is still good, spark is good at the rotor, I have not checked further but the mech is certain that the problem is related to the hydraulic lifters, they are not getting pumped up or they are closed, not letting fuel in. From the time the motor was put in by the PO to know it does not have that many miles but it would be a guess on my part. How long to hydraulic lisfters last, do they go bad after a few months of not driving it, I drive it everyday since I got it back but that only lasted about four days, just looking for thoughts and opinions ...thanks
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1969 Fastback Auto+FI
1972 Convertible Beetle
2005 Custom New Bettle 2.0
2009 MB C350 |
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KTPhil 
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Hydraulic lifters in a Type 3?
I'm surprised he didn't blame it on low radiator fluid...
What motor is in the car? Is this a Type 4 conversion? |
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Tram
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Hydraulic lifters in a Type 3?
I'm surprised he didn't blame it on low radiator fluid...
What motor is in the car? Is this a Type 4 conversion? |
Sounds like one of the old- school hydraulic conversion kits that were all the 'rage' in the '70s- '80s.
Pull the plugs and run a compression test. This will confirm or eliminate the lifters as a possible issue.
Check fuel pressure
Check for spark
Get back to us with what you find.
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72vert
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that info Tram, I try that. The engine was put in out in Cali when the PO had it prolly around 2003. Its a stock 1600 universal case, I never have looked at the serial, I will check that, they may have drilled out the original block, I am pretty sure its been drilled either way.
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Nate M.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Before you do a compression test, be sure that the lifters are adjusted correctly. You would be surprised just how few people do it right. The way to correctly adjust hyd lifters is a TDC for the cylinder then turn the adjustment screw in 1 full turn past zero lash. Then lock it down.
Unless you have a full flow oil filter system on your motor, hyd. lifters *WILL* give problems in time. A filter is mandatory with these lifters since the smallest grain of dirt will clog them up and keep them from pumping up. That's one reason VW never installed them on a Beetle in the U.S.
I don't build motors with hyd lifters (even type-4s). In time, they ALL give problems. That and you don't have much cam selection with hyd lifters. . .
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72vert
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Nate, since finding out it had hyd lifters I have read in many places that it should have a full flow filter, it doesnt. I want to replace it with standard lifters just not ready to so soon. BTW what do you mean by "past zero lash".
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supersuk
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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What he means is that there is no space between the pushrod and the rocker arm. Normally, regular solid lifters are adjusted to 0.006" of lash (space between the pushrod and rocker arm). With hydro lifters, you want 0 lash and go ahead and make it 1 full turn tighter after 0 lash. Get it?
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72vert
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Got it, thanks...I'll hit it this weekend.
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Mike Fisher
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Hydraulic lifters worked fine in my '69 FI/AT 1641 for 10 years before I sucked a valve. I do have an external oil filter. Tram left the hydraulic lifters out when he built my new 1600.
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Last edited by Mike Fisher on Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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one4house
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Mike Fisher
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:31 am Post subject: |
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No, now I have to adjust solid lifters every 3000 miles!
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Tram
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| No, now I have to adjust solid lifters every 3000 miles! |
Hydraulics can tend to cause running problems with D-jet.
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Tram
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters worked fine in my '69 FI/AT 1641 for 10 years before I sucked a valve. I do have an external oil filter. Tram left the hydraulic lifters out when he built my new 1600. |
Wait a minute... who built it??? My bank statements claim that it wasn't me. 
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72vert
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I need to find a good 1600 with standard lifters almost all the VW shops have disappeared in this part of the world....
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Mike Fisher
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters worked fine in my '69 FI/AT 1641 for 10 years before I sucked a valve. I do have an external oil filter. Tram left the hydraulic lifters out when he built my new 1600. |
Wait a minute... who built it??? My bank statements claim that it wasn't me. |
It is true that my engine & automatic transmission were rebuilt by Tramsdisciple for His price!
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Tram
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters worked fine in my '69 FI/AT 1641 for 10 years before I sucked a valve. I do have an external oil filter. Tram left the hydraulic lifters out when he built my new 1600. |
Wait a minute... who built it??? My bank statements claim that it wasn't me. |
It is true that my engine & automatic transmission were rebuilt by Tramsdisciple for His price! |
If he built it at my price... you'd still be cryin'! 
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72vert
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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If I bought a 1641 longblock would I have any issues with the ECU running the stock FI?
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1972 Convertible Beetle
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Tram
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| 72vert wrote: |
| If I bought a 1641 longblock would I have any issues with the ECU running the stock FI? |
Not as long as it has a stock cam and correctly oriented distributor drive for Type 3.
What did the compression check show on yours?
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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72vert
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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I am checking the valves and the compression in the morning...
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vlad01
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Nate M. wrote: |
Before you do a compression test, be sure that the lifters are adjusted correctly. You would be surprised just how few people do it right. The way to correctly adjust hyd lifters is a TDC for the cylinder then turn the adjustment screw in 1 full turn past zero lash. Then lock it down.
Unless you have a full flow oil filter system on your motor, hyd. lifters *WILL* give problems in time. A filter is mandatory with these lifters since the smallest grain of dirt will clog them up and keep them from pumping up. That's one reason VW never installed them on a Beetle in the U.S.
I don't build motors with hyd lifters (even type-4s). In time, they ALL give problems. That and you don't have much cam selection with hyd lifters. . . |
I hear that.
even in other engine with factory hydo lifters that can start to play up in time, especially when the engine is thrashed a lot, some over pump at high rpm depending on engine design as well as the lifters. You can get some great aftermaket anti pump hydro lifters like from crow cams, crower etc.. I doubt they make em for VWs though as the ones I have in mind are roller lifters.
yep! solid is the way to go in a vw.
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