Questions about engine tin & parts setup for a '68

scrivyscriv

Hey y'all!

Looking for some opinions, so please feel free to give yours!

My '68 bug is on a 73 pan so it's already non-stock. I'm fine with that level of non-stock, but I want to keep everything else pretty much as close to '68 as I can.

I've got a mutt engine right now and it's a beater. It came out of an early super and has a rebuild tag riveted over the case number - single port heads, doghouse oil cooler, oil bath air cleaner. It's also missing a lot of tin. The sleds, heat riser insulators, hoover bit, and breast tin are gone; there's an aftermarket HORRIBLE fit chrome breast tin right now. I want to get *almost* everything in the engine bay back to stock look and function.

Since this is a mutt engine, clearly not a '68, what's the best year style to build it back up to, as far as parts availability, design, service life? I'm talking about externals, since I won't be doing a rebuild yet.

I want to keep the oil bath, and I want to put all the original tin back in place, but I don't know what parts to get!
Where can I find information on parts diagrams, numbers, and years used? I only have bus resources right now!

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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

Grifter · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject:

I don't know much about the breast tins, but I can tell you that air cleaner looks like a 61-65. Here's a guide I found http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wired_04_01/wired_04_01.htm

Maybe give a call to AwesomePowdercoat about the tins, that's their specialty.
http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/products.html

Oh, and I'll take all that doghouse tin if you don't want it.... Very Happy

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Greg
1970 Beetle...a work in progress
Yukon Yellow
Stock SP, Bosch vac advance
30PICT-3 swapped to a 30PICT-1

"At least I know that I don't know. Question is are you bozos smart enough to feel stupid? Hope so"

Aussiebug · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:43 pm Post subject:

That body does not look like a 73. All bodies got eyebrow vents behind the rear quarter windows in 72, so I think you have a 70 or 71 body there (might possibly depend on the country of origin I suppose).

The air cleaner is NOT 68, but is for an earlier 1200 engine, so it might be restricting the airflow into the engine a little. The 68 had a large oval air cleaner with TWO inlets - the left one has a weighted flap (which opened only if you floored it) and a right one with a wire-pull operated warm air inlet - the wire-pull worked off the right set of movable flaps, which had a small crank sticking out of the tinware, just behind the inlet manifold. The later 69-72 oval air cleaners (with just one inlet on the right) will fit OK too, but 71 and 72 had a vacuum operated warm-air system (a vac-switch in the top of the air cleaner), so would need a vacuum connection to make that work.

The distributor is non standard too of course - all bugs came with a vacuum distributor.

Looks like the carb on there is a 31PICT (used on UK/European 1300 engines after 71) or an H30/31. Both will sit directly on the single port manifold, and both will work OK with a 1300-1600 engine. The 31PICT will work with the vacuum distributors but the H30/31 has a lower vacuum signal and might struggle to pull in all the vacuum advance. If so the distributor points-plate spring can be lightened, but I've never had to do that so can't advise you further there.

I'd keep the doghouse cooling and the single port, since that's what you have and it will run OK with that...unless you want to start spending more money.

You'll need all the right tinware - rear breastplate with the warm-air hole on the right (if you change the air cleaner), all the underside plenum pieces (the "sled" you called it), preferably the thermostat, and most definitely the movable cooling flaps, even if they are wired open no thermostat). They act as an important air guide when open. The rectangular air duct from the oil cooler to the front breastplate or course, plus replace the Hoover bit, or you loose about 30% or your oil-cooling air.

Check the throwout bearing in the tranny - if it has flat ears and complicated looking spring clips, then that clutch plate will work. But if you have a throwout bearing with round ears and simple horseshoe clips, you MUST use a clutch plate with the metal collar in the middle of the fingers. The two clutch plates are otherwise identical.
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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

scrivyscriv · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject:

OLD VW NUT · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject:

Check the fan size for that dog house shroud. Its slightly bigger than the 1600 SP (1970) to compensate for the air that goes directly to the cooler. I've putzed around with the aftermarket tin - pure crap IMO! Find or steal some original German tin if you can. Pound it out and paint it to match.

The thermostat is IMO more important than the hot air hoses for the carb - BUT I'd prefer to have everything as stock so the motor will run as VW intended.

You can't use the Pic 34 carb on your motor unless you put DP heads on it. There are no single port manifolds that will accept the larger carb, and no adapter for it that I know of. The right carb for a 1500 single port (SP) is a 30 Pict 2 carb. Correct distributor would be the 113-905-205M for a 68 - the 113-905-205T will also work provided you have the right carb.

Don't mix and match carbs and distributors - the wrong combination will at best not work very well and give you lousy mileage - and at worst will give you lousy mileage AND be a handful to drive. The worst combination might be the 34 Pict 3 with a centrifugal advance only Bosch 009 distributor. The flat spot is right off-idle when you need the power to get going - and the motor just refuses to go. Crossing a busy intersection can make for a real adventure! Some people have made that combo work - I've had several of them and managed 'OK' but was never happy with them. Which is why I usually put dual carbs on - and kept the distributor which works well with them.

Here's what the engine tin looks like for a dual port motor - model years 71-79. For SP all you need to do is use the cylinder covers from your motor.

To get the correct breast tin you'll first need to know which carb you'll be using - so hold off on running out and buying one now.
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Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI

Juanito84 · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject:

Although you might perfer the correct year aircleaner for looks, I recommend a 1972 or later air cleaner. You can use a 1972-73 oil bath or a 1973 and later paper element air cleaner for carbureted engines. Don't use a fuel injected air cleaner for a carbureted engine.

The later carbureted air cleaners all have a thermostatic air preheating system that is superior over all past systems. If you ever want to tune for best fuel mileage, one of these later air cleaners will help. Plus they don't lose top power like other air cleaners because the flap opens up to only cool air under acceleration.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine?

gt1953 · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:24 am Post subject:

Source your tin right here in the classifieds. Attend shows/swaps. Look into the local VW scene for items. Keep it stock.
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

scrivyscriv · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject:

andrewvwclassic · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:43 pm Post subject:

Looks good but I would def junk that single releif case if you do a rebuild. looks like the engine im building. I am a big advocate of getting rid of all those fresh air ports as well so I would run a 36 doghouse w\o fresh air and j tubes. you would get better cooling on that single releif.

scrivyscriv · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:53 am Post subject:

briansandiego · Samba Member Joined: October 07, 2012 Posts: 135

Hi there, Not trying to show off or anything Rolling Eyes

but maybe this pic helps a little? This should be mostly the correct parts for a 68. I think with the exception of the red aircleaner sticker and the gold generator pulley. The big doohicky sticking out from the carb is an emissions part that might be for California only?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1112912
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Stock'ish 1968 Beetle

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:37 am Post subject:

andrewvwclassic · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject:

scrivyscriv · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject:

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:41 pm Post subject:

Looks like 29 mm inside then. That was biggest used in 1600 SP non-DH engines. That will cause cooling problem with DH system.
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Danwvw · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject:

Looks like you have a non-dog-house fan in a dog-house! That photo posted of the engine is nice looking! But I would re-build what you have and get the right carb for the dual port or go with Dual IDF carbs if it's a dual port. The dog-house fan shroud and the wider fan and the wider aluminum instead of steel oil cooler (Since the fan is wrong the oil cooler may also be wrong!) are the full evolution cooling system for the Type 1 and really make a difference. Only other thing the engine needs is a Filter Oil/Pump added.
Engine photo:

Dog House cooling fan is 37mm I think they call them 36mm though! Chirco list them as 36 and 35 and 32mm fans.
Cooling Fan Width

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andrewvwclassic · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject:

scrivyscriv · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject:

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject:

Doubt that, since the HE holes for Summer exhausting are pretty small.
Plus the oil cooler exhaust is much bigger so the engine/heads fins are not going to get enough cooling....
Got to remember VW kept going bigger with the fan with DH for better cooling.
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In Stereo, Where Available!

andrewvwclassic · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject:


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