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Mikedrevguy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the novice, what do the achronyms stand for:
AAR
CHT
IAT

Vacuum leak I've sprayed starter fluid at the connection between intake manifold and the throttle body-
1/2side no change.
3/4 side (4 I think) got increased rpm.

I am suspicious also that the distributor is not advancing as it should, if y could point me in the direction of the write up on the cleaning up the advance, that'd be great.

Thank you guys for the help and encouragement. Very much appreciated
Mike
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The IAT= intake air temperature sensor. That is the two wire sensor screwed into the central intake manifold (also called the plenum). This sensor measures inlet air temperature and can make changes to fuel mixture of about 5-15%.

The AAR= auxiliary air regulator. This is a small round pot looking gadget that has a hose going to the plenum on one side and another hose going to the air cleaner. It is grounded to the block or the plenum and has a, single red + wire going to it from underneath. Inside is a coil heater and a bimetallic coil. These are attached to a, rotary cylinder valve. When the engine is, cold its open and lets in extra air for warm up.

But.... with D-jet....letting in extra air causes the MPS to sense lower vacuum which = throttle movement to the ECU (electronic control unit).....so you get extra fuel as well. It closes in about 5-8 minutes when functioning properly. It is effectively your choke.

The CHT= your chlinder head temperature sensor. It is a single wire sensor screwed into the cylinder head near #3 cylinder. It starts out at about 2500 ohms cold....and when really, cold can be, near 3000 ohms.....and drops to about 70 ohms when really hot.....but ideally should stay around 125 ohms when fully warmed up.
The lower the resistance the leaner it changes the fuel mixture. It helps set the baseline fuel mixture. It must be in perfect, shape and have perfect connections.

I will give you a new write up In the am on the distributor. Ray
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just take the distributor apart cleaning out all the 40 yr old grease and dirt. Then put it back together with a light greasing and check the "trigger points' at the bottom of the dizzy so that they are ok.
Just using the mechanical advance is fine and it will run smoothly if everything is right. Timing must be set at 3500rpms to 28 BTDC hoses off and plugged.
Again everything must be setup correctly as in valves adjusted .006, no vacuum leaks, timing right then the car must be run until really warm (20 minutes) and then the idle can be set IF the AAR is completely closed.
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77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just take the distributor apart cleaning out all the 40 yr old grease and dirt. Then put it back together with a light greasing and check the "trigger points' at the bottom of the dizzy so that they are ok.
Just using the mechanical advance is fine and it will run smoothly if everything is right. Timing must be set at 3500rpms to 28 BTDC hoses off and plugged.
Again everything must be setup correctly as in valves adjusted .006, no vacuum leaks, timing right then the car must be run until really warm (20 minutes) and then the idle can be set IF the AAR is completely closed.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just take the distributor apart cleaning out all the 40 yr old grease and dirt. Then put it back together with a light greasing and check the "trigger points' at the bottom of the dizzy so that they are ok.
Just using the mechanical advance is fine and it will run smoothly if everything is right. Timing must be set at 3500rpms to 28 BTDC hoses off and plugged.
Again everything must be setup correctly as in valves adjusted .006, no vacuum leaks, timing right then the car must be run until really warm (20 minutes) and then the idle can be set IF the AAR is completely closed.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleyseng wrote:
Just take the distributor apart cleaning out all the 40 yr old grease and dirt. Then put it back together with a light greasing and check the "trigger points' at the bottom of the dizzy so that they are ok.
Just using the mechanical advance is fine and it will run smoothly if everything is right. Timing must be set at 3500rpms to 28 BTDC hoses off and plugged.
Again everything must be setup correctly as in valves adjusted .006, no vacuum leaks, timing right then the car must be run until really warm (20 minutes) and then the idle can be set IF the AAR is completely closed.


To add to that....and I have found that virtually all D-jet distributors need this to clean up the slop in the timing marks at idle....

When you pull the breaker plate out to clean and check the advance weights....remove the small screw for the ball and spring on one side. It will ALWAYS have a dent worn in the plate. Polish that area with 2000+ grit paper.

On the bottom of the top plate you will find a circular groove area. Polish that. there is a matching "glide" ring on the bottom plate. Polish that like a mirror and add grease. You will find that the two plates now slide on one another with a fraction of the friction....and make the advance unit much more responsive especially in cold weather.

If when you look at the lower glide ring...you see small circular indentations about 3mm in diameter...it means the previous owner has swapped out a points screw at one point that was too long...or went with cheap points that had a thinner frame. The screw protrudes through the top pplate and gouges the bottom glide ring causing no advance or sticky advance.

Across from the ball and spring is a small metal finger that keeps the plates hooked together. Typically that has far too much slop from the factory.

Put a .004" feeler gauge between that finger and the plate....and tap that finger down until it contacts the feeler gauge. This also helps advance response and cuts down on timing marks scatter and chatter at idle.

When you have the advance springs exposed...you will generally find that there is a large thick spring and a small one with a hoop in the end. The hoop is almost always out of contact with the attachment post.
It causes the idle timing to "jump" right near the rpm drop point for initial cut out of mechanical advance as rpm drops or at part throttle.

With small pair of pliers...tighten the spring loop up...and then bend the post outward about .040"....experiment with that one...but not so far as to contact the distributor body.

Also check the drive dog on the distributor. If the shaft has more than about .015-.020" of vertical play....your shims between dog and body have worn (actually the body itself wears as well)...and it will help to get an extra shim or two to tighten that up. I keep mine to about .010"...and it helps timing stability at idle. Ray
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Mikedrevguy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She LIVES!!!!!
out and drove this morning, and MORE importantly, RevWife got out and drove her this morning. So. Excited. She. Is.
accelerates nicely - idles pretty good, though it's hunting a bit.
to get it to idle less than 1000, I had to pull the hose off the manifold pressure sensor and plug it at manifold, otherwise, it idles around 2000.
all tagged, licensed, and insured. -
How could/should I adjust the MPS?
there is a bit of a surge/flutter cruising at 3000-3500rpm presuming that's related to the MPS issue.
the biggest issue with it running was the massive intake leak at the heads. pulled the intakes off and they were wet , where I presumed they should have been dry?? new intake gaskets and, well, we are where we are.
I do not have the vacuum line hooked up to the distributor - how might that affect the stability of the timing? (does that make sense? )

It's running (mostly), braking, now to:
1) replace the roof seals - Front is leaking pretty badly, and the window seals, although I've already replace them, I got in hurry and cut them off too short.
2) do a little body work.

thanks much.
Rev
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76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikedrevguy wrote:
She LIVES!!!!!
out and drove this morning, and MORE importantly, RevWife got out and drove her this morning. So. Excited. She. Is.
accelerates nicely - idles pretty good, though it's hunting a bit.
to get it to idle less than 1000, I had to pull the hose off the manifold pressure sensor and plug it at manifold, otherwise, it idles around 2000.
all tagged, licensed, and insured. -
How could/should I adjust the MPS?
there is a bit of a surge/flutter cruising at 3000-3500rpm presuming that's related to the MPS issue.
the biggest issue with it running was the massive intake leak at the heads. pulled the intakes off and they were wet , where I presumed they should have been dry?? new intake gaskets and, well, we are where we are.
I do not have the vacuum line hooked up to the distributor - how might that affect the stability of the timing? (does that make sense? )

It's running (mostly), braking, now to:
1) replace the roof seals - Front is leaking pretty badly, and the window seals, although I've already replace them, I got in hurry and cut them off too short.
2) do a little body work.

thanks much.
Rev


This is important!!!! WARNING!!!!

You cannot run EVER with the hose to the MPS disconnected. This will waste your engine in short order.

The MPS is not an accessory or an emissions part. It is 100% THE CORE sensor for the fuel injection. It is the equivalent of the mass airflow sensor.

If it will not idle below 1000....you are either very lean or very rich. its too early to tell which....unless you have more to tell us about the running condition (black smoke, exhaust popping, spark plug color etc).

If it idles too high with the hose on the MPS...typically it already has too much air in the mixture for what the system can give for fuel.

1. Check your fuel pressure. If the fuel pressure is low...thats automatic lean.

2. Check your CHT. Make sure the resistance is correct and its plugged in cleanly.

3. When you have small vacuum leaks in the system...it will idle up. This is because a vacuum leak is read by the MPS as a throttle opening. It mixes fuel with it....and that resulting air fuel mix...ACTS like a throttle opening.

4. Large vacuum leaks will generally bog the engine down...like what you are doing when you unplug the MPS line. That tells the MPS that all vacuum is lost...signaling WIDE OPEN THROTTLE...which just pours fuel into the system.
This will ruin your engine by washing down the rings.

You have a whole lot of things and vacuum leaks to check before you touch the MPS.

But...this is where it starts.

Before you do this you need to know that.....you will need to drive, stop...adjust while idling, drive, stop , adjust while idling. Choose a circuit that has some light highway, stops to accelerate away from, hills etc.

The car needs to be warmed up...and to insure that the CHT is not changing and causing baseline fuel mixture readings to change...the best thing to do is find out what your CHT reads at full warmed up...in ohms...and install a fixed resistor inline in place of the CHT...set to that reading....just for testing and adjusting...so you know its not the CHT changing...but what you just adjusted.

Adjusting the pressure sensor is NOT a simple "what do I turn" exercise....just warning you now.

First...remove it from the car and pull a vacuum on it. Male sure it holds vacuum indefinitely.

There are three adjustments in these units. All are critical. Unless yours has been screwed with a lot....the inner full load stop you should not mess with. But...you will have to be careful to insure you do not mess up the inner load stop adjustment when you are adjusting the main fuel mixture (the center screw)

The large outer aluminum slotted screw plug under the epoxy....is NOT just a plug. It s the outer full load stop adjustment.

It can only be removed most accurately when the car is idling...so the diaphragm plate is sucked in by vacuum taking the tension from it.

So with the engine idling....mark where the outer plug is with a sharpie pen.
Carefully turn the outer aluminum plug screw inward...until you just feel it touch the diaphragm plate. A fraction of a turn too far....and you will know it. The car will stumble and try to die.

Mark this position and then screw the plug back outward to its original position. Record the number of turns. Typically it will be a minimum of 1/2...up to about 1.5 turns max. If it has more or less than this we will deal with that later.
If it has 0 turns..meaning its always in contact with the diaphragm plate...make sure you have no vacuum leaks at the MPS...and then for now...screw it outward 1/2 turn.

Now screw the plug all the way out from this mark...counting the total number of turns and partial turns so that you can re-install it to the original location.

Under the aluminum plug you will see a screw with a slot in the end. This is your main fuel mixture adjusting screw.

Surrounding that screw you will see a ring with a 7-8mm internal, recessed hex surrounding the center screw. that hex ring is the inner full load stop. DO NOT MESS WITH IT.

You can make a hollow allen key out of plastic or by drilling out a metal one...or use a pick to hold it still while you make adjustments to the center screw.

When you turn the center enrichment screw....out is richer...in is leaner. Turn it 1/8th to 1/10th of a turn at a time. Make an adjustment....replace the outer full load plug..each and every time...drive it...stop while its idling....repeat.

Do about 3-5 adjustments and then stop to coll off for a while andstart again.

Before you start..make sure to check the ECU. See if it has a grey knob on top. The knob has 23-24 clicks. You should start this with the knob set in the middle of the scale.

this is just to get you started thinking about this. You have a lot more to check first.

Good work so far! Ray
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Mikedrevguy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Took your words to hart, and began searching out vacuum leaks. And they were many. Replaced, again the 3/4 manifold boots.
Somewhere in the process,I'm lost the inner seal for the #2 injector.that created quite a vacuum leak. Oh, can't forget inserting #3 jet cockeyed and having to diagnose a fuel leak.
Got that all squared away, (I think) but the great victory came with replacing the MPS, and it was night and day.
The wife got to drive in the So. Oregon Sun today and she really enjoyed.
Though she did say it got a little hot, almost to the red zone on the gauge. Have to check to see if it's running lean. Anything else to look at?

Thanks again, and again and again
Rev
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74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikedrevguy wrote:
Ray, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Took your words to hart, and began searching out vacuum leaks. And they were many. Replaced, again the 3/4 manifold boots.
Somewhere in the process,I'm lost the inner seal for the #2 injector.that created quite a vacuum leak. Oh, can't forget inserting #3 jet cockeyed and having to diagnose a fuel leak.
Got that all squared away, (I think) but the great victory came with replacing the MPS, and it was night and day.
The wife got to drive in the So. Oregon Sun today and she really enjoyed.
Though she did say it got a little hot, almost to the red zone on the gauge. Have to check to see if it's running lean. Anything else to look at?

Thanks again, and again and again
Rev



No problem!

By the way....replacing the MPS....just gets you part way there. MPS's ..are not 100% properly adjusted off the shelf.
This is why the factory...after all of the troubles they had at the dealers with swapping in a new MPS for one that was bad....could not get the majority of engines to run properly in all conditions/locations......the factory started color coding with paint marks.... MPS's that were adjusted one direction or the other in baseline fuel mixture.

What the factory bench set MPS cannot take into account....is the change in vacuum signature from age and wear....or the change in signature from modified engine.....or any range of possibilities including load changes from different gearing, altitude etc.

You will still most probably need some tweaking. Also...do not get rd of your old one. If the resistance reads fine, and it holds vacuum...then there was absolutely nothing wrong with it other than being too far out of adjustment for your engine.

Also...if your oil filler chimney on your engine has a 12mm hose coming off of it from a 90 degree elbow and going to the intake plenum....then you have a PCV valve.
The PCV valve is problematic. It does not play well with D-jet because it opens due to a combination of case pressure and vacuum. It dumps into the plenum right next to the MPS vacuum inlet...and plays hell with it at low rpms...and since its not controlled by the ECU...the system has n control over it.

Also typically with age, the disc valve inside of the PCV is cracked or gone making it a vacuum leak.

A lot of us have found that cracking whats left of the disc out and then installing a permanent PCV restriction in the 12mm hose works much better. Its a constant small PCV airflow....and since its constant...you can adjust for it with a tweak to the MPS center screw.

Ray
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Mikedrevguy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again, Ray, for the heads up of the rocks that may reside ahead.
The MPS I swapped in is easily adjustable - (I set it using a best lean idle as I would have adjusted a carb - ?? that gonna be workable?
Where does the temperature gauge read? It's reading 3/4+ toward the red after some moderate to stop and go driving. Head temps, using laser thermometer, read 220 on 1/2 side and 280 on the 3/4 side.
I'm gonna recheck the timing to see how if I may have goofed that up.

Anyway -
Rev.
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74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikedrevguy wrote:
Thanks again, Ray, for the heads up of the rocks that may reside ahead.
The MPS I swapped in is easily adjustable - (I set it using a best lean idle as I would have adjusted a carb - ?? that gonna be workable?
Where does the temperature gauge read? It's reading 3/4+ toward the red after some moderate to stop and go driving. Head temps, using laser thermometer, read 220 on 1/2 side and 280 on the 3/4 side.
I'm gonna recheck the timing to see how if I may have goofed that up.

Anyway -
Rev.


The laser will be inaccurate. Get a head temp gauge as soon as you can.

The other MPS should be easily, adjustable as well. Just be sure you mind the replacement of the outer aluminum cover as I noted....because thats an adjustment as well....not just a screw cover.

You cant adjust these exactly like a carburetor. As you make an adjustment....lots of things get affected. If the CHT is either running hot or cold....it affects the adjustment and will change as the car is driven. Please make note of my instruction to find out what the CHT is running for resistance when fully warmed up and then lock that, setting with a resistor while adjusting.
Its the only way to know if you are actually setting the baseline fuel mixture or just shooting at a moving target.

Also.....your ignition timing must be spot on....27 BTDC at 3500 rpm hoses off. And.....make sure your valves are adjusted very well.

If thd ignition timing is not, correct it, changes injection timing. Ray
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray,
you mention the CHT plugs in near the #3 intake - - could you be a bit more specific in location? does it connect under the tin? or beside the intake port?

I've got a wire plugged into the harness that routes under the intake and beneath the engine tin. is that the wire for the CHT? (connects into harness beneath the MPS)
is it possible to get at the CHT without dropping the motor?


wondering before I go all crazy on it.

Rev.
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74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes....thats it. Its a bit harder to get to in a 914. It looks like a 13mm bolt with a, wire to it and there is an openkng or hole in the tin usually.

Take a deep 13mm socket....an old one. Use an angle or bench grinder to cut a V shaped slot on the side for the wire to pass through. Use a universal joint and socket extension bar to remove it......but first test what you have.

When the engine is cold.....pull the single wire from its connector to the harnessm set your volt meter to ohms and put the red probe on the terminal and the black probe on the block for ground closeby. Check the book. Warm the car up and then repeat this.
Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

checked the CHT today, cold - could get no connectivity between the wire and the block - either I'm doing it incorrectly, or - - - it's a bad CHT?
I've got a new one on the way from Pelican, at any rate.
will be back at it when the sensor arrives.

thanks for the encouragement, Ray. much appreciated.

Mike
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76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHT replaced
Swapped #3 & 4 injectors. Head temps down well under the red line, but maybe still high. This one injector may be faulty and causing a lean cylinder.
On another note- there is a voltage regulator on the relay panel, driver's side of the engine bay. Is ther another associated in the alternator, or is the 76' 914 strictly an external voltage regulator?
Reading 16v at the gauge and thinking this is an issue 😉
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79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikedrevguy wrote:
CHT replaced
Swapped #3 & 4 injectors. Head temps down well under the red line, but maybe still high. This one injector may be faulty and causing a lean cylinder.
On another note- there is a voltage regulator on the relay panel, driver's side of the engine bay. Is ther another associated in the alternator, or is the 76' 914 strictly an external voltage regulator?
Reading 16v at the gauge and thinking this is an issue 😉


16v is a little high. I think 14.5v should be max. I will have to check my books to see if there were any changes to alternators but most had the 55 amp Bosch alternator with external three wire regulator. Don't quote me on that yet.


Its worth the $125 to just send your injectors out as a set to Cruzin or Wictchhunter and have them serviced and flowed.

Also.....grounds are critical on these. Find the ground wire on each injector plug and measure the resistance to ground with a good multimeter. Anything over 0 means you probably have a faulty ground wire or bad connector in the plug or at the case ground.

Oh...also measure resistance of each outside pin on the trigger points on the distributor....to the ground pin in the center of the plug...and report back what you find.

If the resistance of one side or the other (meaning one injector pair or the other) is over the limit in resistance.....or too far apart in resistance from channel to channel....this is seen as an injection timing issue. It can shorten or lengthen it. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New voltage regulator - dropped to 13+ -14- and seems happy. Hopefully the battery will stop hissing?

Did track down the grounds and they were good.

Having to bleed the RR caliper 1/week : looking at replacing/rebuilding.

Little by little it's all coming together.

Thanks much.
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79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
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Bleyseng
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Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For proper rebuilt brake calipers get them from Eric at http://www.pmbperformance.com/calipers.html

They are completely rebuilt back to factory

yes, you should have about 14volts showing on the gauge. The hissing sound was the battery cooking.
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70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
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Mikedrevguy
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Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2234
Location: Medford, OR
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What differences in the brake calipers are there between the years.
I know that they went for one bleeder valve to two at some point. Besides that, what compatibilities are there?
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