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FarWalker
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2014
Posts: 19
Location: Santa Cruz
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: Too much fun! |
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Hi, my name is Walker and this is going to be about me and my dad(shum) rebuilding our VW Type 181. We bought is a few years ago and it sat in our carport waiting for its turn in the garage to be fixed up. Our goal is to have it road ready in 8 weeks for the Alcan 5000. Fortunately we have had this plan for awhile and have done lots of research into all the areas of fixing and changing that we plan to do.
Here is a picture of it emerging from it cover in storage:
A photo of the horribly rusted wiper motor:
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FarWalker
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2014
Posts: 19
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject: Too much fun! |
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| I just realized that I didn't include the full scope of the work that we plan on doing. We plan on going through, replacing, and fixing: all the brakes, brake lines, gas heater(help!), new seats, axels, bushings, transmission, top(Done!), wipers, engine, and some I'm probably forgetting. |
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GI Joe
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: Athens, TN
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Zylinderkopf
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2012
Posts: 679
Location: SE Oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum! It's always nice to see a Thing getting back on the road. Look forward to seeing more pictures!
_________________
1963 Beetle
1966 Beetle 1300
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1971 Super Beetle
1974 Thing
"A lot of people never use their initiative because no one told them to." |
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Al Capulco
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 532
Location: Northridge, CA.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| That wiper motor looks familiar! |
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Shoyrtt
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 1009
Location: Redlands, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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I'd never heard of the "Alcan 5000" before. Sounds like an awesome rally! 
http://www.alcan5000.com/
and this from the FAQ's:
"What kind of vehicle do you recommend? Summer choices are wide open. Look for comfortable seats, good fuel range & economy, and ease of maintenance. If it isn't mainstream, bring along your important minor parts. If tires are an odd size, bring two spares. For the most reserve capability and least preparation, choose an SUV or full-size truck. (We have seen teams in rental vehicles. We can't recommend it, but this isn't a race and as long as the contract clearly shows you may drive in Canada we probably won't object)."
and the itinerary: http://www.alcan5000.com/2014itin.htm
Sounds like the Thing is going to get a workout! |
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rrankin
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004
Posts: 287
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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That looks like a lot of fun! Keep us posted!
_________________
'74 Thing [Fritz]
Austin, TX |
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Jonny Rock
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| It might be a little chilly in a Thing. Now I know why you want to fix the gas heater! It sounds like fun though. |
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shum
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: santa cruz
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, this is Steve, Walker's Dad, I'm happy to see that he started a thread on our project. I will try to chime in and help him keep it going. He is off at school today so I will respond to some of the comments.
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| That wiper motor looks familiar! |
Yeah, ugly little thing, but we got another from Frank Walling who has an ad in the classifieds for rebuilding. A very pleasing transaction and I highly recommend him from our experience. I think we will really need wipers for the trip.
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| Sounds like the Thing is going to get a workout! |
Yes it is and why we decided to go the type 4 engine route.
10 days and almost 5,000 miles, 700miles on gravel. And, my wife and I are going to drive it back for a few more thousand miles, but at a more leisurely pace.
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| It might be a little chilly in a Thing. Now I know why you want to fix the gas heater! It sounds like fun though. |
A heater would be nice, will see if we get to it. the list is long and time is short...
here is what we did yesterday. Rolled the Thing out into the driveway for a good blasting in preparation for back half work: transmission, C/Vs, stub axles, brakes, hoses, lines torsion bar rubbers, etc...
After cleaning, went around to every nut and bolt and sprayed penetrating oil to soak in to prepare for Fridays work session.
[img[/img]
Oh yeah and this arrived by UPS. I will post up some more info on this later as I have to go back to work now.
We are in search of a pair of very nice stub axles if anyone has a set they want to sell please, send me a PM. Thanks, Steve
OR, I see there are after market forged ones available, are they as good as the originals?
_________________
57 rag top, 67 bug, 73 Thing
70 Bronco U14, 73 Bronco U15
61 R69S/2 BMW, 73 R75/5 BMW |
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Shoyrtt
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 1009
Location: Redlands, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Steve & Walker,
What class will you be running? http://www.alcan5000.com/2014Regs.htm
It looks like you could race in the Vintage class, but without a GPS?
As far as stub axles, I have only used OE stuff for stock cars and shied away from the aftermarket stuff from China, India, Brazil etc. The only aftermarket items I have used was in some of our race cars using 930 and 934 CVs which would be overkill for what you are doing. That being said, for the rally, I would think you should carry a spare axle, stub axle and a couple of CVs. Reading some of the articles on the Alcan site, the winter races had some timed "racing" sections where it looked like you lost points for a slow time (around an oval or short gravel course). CVs and axles might be your weak links in the car in these all out sections.
What are your plans for fuel capacity? Stock tank only holds about 9 gallons. You can add some with this tank: http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-2510
Keep us updated! After desert racing for a number of years now, I might want to add the Alcan to the bucket list someday. 
Jim |
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shum
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: santa cruz
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the vintage class. There is also a very nice TR4 running in that class, nice folks from the emails exchanged with them. Will make for a fun British car vs German car.
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| Reading some of the articles on the Alcan site, the winter races had some timed "racing" sections where it looked like you lost points for a slow time (around an oval or short gravel course). |
I believe it was an oval on ice, timed. I gather it was just for fun, but some heavy side betting took place. Seems like too much fun and in fact has Walker and I talking about setting up one of our Broncos for the winter rally in two years. The summer rally (not a race) only goes once every 4 years.
Thank you for this link, I was not aware of extra capacity "stock" tanks. I like this as fuel capacity is an issue for us. But, it looks like that tank might cause the spare to be relocated .... have to research and think on it. here is a photo of what has been planned, mounted on drivers side rear number by fresh air intake.
_________________
57 rag top, 67 bug, 73 Thing
70 Bronco U14, 73 Bronco U15
61 R69S/2 BMW, 73 R75/5 BMW |
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Captain Spalding
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Can't beat the NATO-style fuel cans. With a seal in good shape they will not leak. No liquid, no vapor. Nothing. Beware of knockoffs.
Don't forget the spout. They can be had with a plastic bracket to mount the spout to the can.
I further secure the spout with a low-strength zip tie - the kind you might find on a fire extinguisher pull pin. |
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Semper_Dad
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 3510
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Those are great cans. I picked up 4 of them on Ebay. Pricey (even for Ebay). I prefer to use the 10 liter cans. Easier to handle.
There are two types of 10L cans.
1 of them has the same footprint as a 20L, only shorter
The other is a proportionality downsized version of the 20L. I think they look the best. Harder to find, more expensive.
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Walküre Restoration Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737492 |
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Captain Spalding
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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There are some caveats to consider when buying NATO-style fuel cans.
If you are buying used cans, beware of French surplus cans that have a nozzle of a similar but not identical shape to the NATO cans. Pour spouts that you have for NATO cans will not fit.
Actual used NATO-issue cans are made of thicker sheet metal than new ones. They are sturdier, but heavier. If you buy a used can, get a new gasket. They are cheap peace of mind. It's a plus if you can inspect the inside of the can prior to purchase. Bring a flashlight. And don't let anyone tell you you can't put gasoline in a can that has ever held diesel or kerosene. That's incorrect. If it's dry and clean inside you can put in any fuel you want.
There are knock-offs out there that vary from the original design slightly. Note the two examples in the photo below.
On the left, a more original NATO style fuel can. On the right, a modified design. Notice that on the can on the left the welded seam is recessed. This allows the can to be stable when laid on any of three sides. They can be stacked on the narrow sides as well. Additionally, the recessed welded seams are less prone to rust if the can is left on wet pavement. If you call this distinction nit-picking, I won't argue. That's up to you.
+1 on Semper Dad's recommendation of the 10 liter can. If I were looking for a 10 liter can today, I'd get some of these. They are a little over 5 inches wide, and so, coincidentally, is the rear bumper end cap on a Thing. The downside is that most off-the-shelf fuel can holders are made for the footprint of the 20 liter can, rather than the narrower footprint of this one.
See my more general rant on non-NATO jerry cans here. |
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FarWalker
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2014
Posts: 19
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Captain Spalding, that is some really good information.
Purists be warned: This will make you cringe.
So, yesterday we went in search of new seats for the Thing. We had previously bought some very ratty superbeetle seats that we have take the bottom seat rails off for fabricating new seats frames.
A few hours of searching can start to get to you...
Annnd victory! A pair of seat with armrests, mechanically sound, clannish, color ok, and comfortable!
Now to remember to bring the truck next time.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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At nearly 500 miles a day my butt would stil ache.  |
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Shoyrtt
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 1009
Location: Redlands, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| shum wrote: |
Yes, the vintage class. There is also a very nice TR4 running in that class, nice folks from the emails exchanged with them. Will make for a fun British car vs German car.
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It looks like you have to run the vintage rally equipment in that class also. What are your plans for timing etc from this list?
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* SOP is defined as OEM odometer plus a slide rule, Stevens wheel, and basic electronic calculator. Rally tables are allowed, but computers (laptop, tablet, notebook, Android, iPhone, etc), and Curta calculators are NOT.
* Vintage equipment includes SOP items plus mechanical odometers like Halda Tripmaster & Twinmaster, and "Class B" or "Pro" electronic tripmeters such as Alfa Pro, Timewise 526B or 547B, Brantz Retrotrip 2; Brantz International 1 & 2 Classic; and Terratrip 1, 101+ and 202 with no calculating function and no remote display. "Class A" rally computers are specifically forbidden, but odos may include a digital clock. As a tribute to their vintage history, Halda Speedpilots and Curta calculators are allowed. |
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Shoyrtt
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 1009
Location: Redlands, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no purist by any means, and I know this isn't a "race" but in looking at some of the other entries, I don't think it would be a bad idea to make the Thing as safe as possible for the rally. For example this rule: "Vehicles must be equipped with OEM seat belts for all as a minimum." Stock belts simply don't cut it. I would put a modern three point belt system in at a minimum and a 4 or 5 point to be really secure.
That seat could be improved also at minimal costs to a suspension seat from PRP, Master Craft, Beard etc. Yes they don't have arm rests, but I have found them invaluable on a 500 mile race day. http://www.prpseats.com/Category/3-competition-series.aspx The Audi in your class is running a set of Sparcos ($$$)
And lastly, the roll bar. Alcan says "A roll bar is required in soft top vehicles." It appears that you have a stock, four point cage so you meet the rule requirement, but I would have a shop build a six point cage that will provide more protection in case of a roll or side impact.
Just a few helpful suggestions.
Jim |
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shum
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: santa cruz
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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There are knock-offs out there that vary from the original design slightly. Note the two examples in the photo below.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
On the left, a more original NATO style fuel can. On the right, a modified design. Notice that on the can on the left the welded seam is recessed. This allows the can to be stable when laid on any of three sides. They can be stacked on the narrow sides as well. Additionally, the recessed welded seams are less prone to rust if the can is left on wet pavement. If you call this distinction nit-picking, I won't argue. That's up to you.
+1 on Semper Dad's recommendation of the 10 liter can. If I were looking for a 10 liter can today, I'd get some of these. They are a little over 5 inches wide, and so, coincidentally, is the rear bumper end cap on a Thing. The downside is that most off-the-shelf fuel can holders are made for the footprint of the 20 liter can, rather than the narrower footprint of this one.
See my more general rant on non-NATO jerry cans here. |
Semper Dad and Captain Spalding,
I never would have thought there was so much to say about jerry cans... I read all and followed the links, thoroughly schooled now to make an informed choice. Thank you! Steve
_________________
57 rag top, 67 bug, 73 Thing
70 Bronco U14, 73 Bronco U15
61 R69S/2 BMW, 73 R75/5 BMW |
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shum
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: santa cruz
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm no purist by any means, and I know this isn't a "race" but in looking at some of the other entries, I don't think it would be a bad idea to make the Thing as safe as possible for the rally. For example this rule: "Vehicles must be equipped with OEM seat belts for all as a minimum." Stock belts simply don't cut it. I would put a modern three point belt system in at a minimum and a 4 or 5 point to be really secure. |
Agreed, the stock seat belts are coming out and at the very least a good 3 point system.
As for the seats....I hate the look it is all wrong for a Thing, but they are very comfortable and the arm rest really helps defeat fatigue. I suspect that after the rally they are coming out for something that aesthetically fits and is comfortable. Walker and I spent hours looking through the wrecking yards for seats that would fit and this is the best we could come up with for now, needed to move on as there is lots to do with limited time. A thing with a roll bar is very limiting in seat width (21" max) and there are few production seats that narrow. Completion rather than perfection carried the day for this part.
On to more fun...unlike the seats, I love the dash!!! I have never worked on a car that was so easy to deal with the wiring, take out a few screws and there you are, wires served right up.
| Quote: |
It looks like you have to run the vintage rally equipment in that class also. What are your plans for timing etc from this list?
Quote:
* SOP is defined as OEM odometer plus a slide rule, Stevens wheel, and basic electronic calculator. Rally tables are allowed, but computers (laptop, tablet, notebook, Android, iPhone, etc), and Curta calculators are NOT.
* Vintage equipment includes SOP items plus mechanical odometers like Halda Tripmaster & Twinmaster, and "Class B" or "Pro" electronic tripmeters such as Alfa Pro, Timewise 526B or 547B, Brantz Retrotrip 2; Brantz International 1 & 2 Classic; and Terratrip 1, 101+ and 202 with no calculating function and no remote display. "Class A" rally computers are specifically forbidden, but odos may include a digital clock. As a tribute to their vintage history, Halda Speedpilots and Curta calculators are allowed.
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Good "timing" (pun intended) with this question as that is why the dash was opened up today... to remove the speedo. We need a trip reset and our 181s are lacking that feature. So it is off to Steve The Speedo King who is going to work kingly magic on that speedo and it have it reappear with a trip meter.
A trip meter, stop watch, rally tables, and an its all for fun attitude we will be good to go.
Yes others are really serious about this have have dumped big bucks into electronic gear (and seats) but the beauty of the classic class is simplicity.
_________________
57 rag top, 67 bug, 73 Thing
70 Bronco U14, 73 Bronco U15
61 R69S/2 BMW, 73 R75/5 BMW |
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